348 Wheels on Mondial 3.2--Warning-PLEASE READ!!!

I need to post this as a warning to those making the swap to 348 wheels on the mondial. As you can read from past threads, it is accepted practice that to swap wheels all you need to use is the standard 348 wheel bolts. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I installed the 348 wheel bolts with my 348 wheels on the mondial. The installer, who is very reputable, commented that there was not a lot of thread in the hub, but green lighted the install. Today I had the car at my Ferrari mechanic and he gave it a big thumbs down. Apparently, from what we saw, while the bolts fit, they are TOO short. It only took 3 1/2 turns to tighten the front bolts completely. Viewed from the inside of the hub, you could plainly see at least half a bolt length of thread was unused. Things were better in the rear, where it took 5 1/2 turns, but still this is NOT GOOD, especially if you plan on doing aggressive driving. If you recall from my previous thread, I purchased 348 wheel bolts from another member, who posted photos of the bolts to confirm they were the proper size. Hence, I am comfortable that the bolts were correct.

This is really a dangerous situation. Ironically, we are going to test but I think the longer 60mm bolts available aftermarket may be a better bet. I will order some and let you know.

 

Sorry for not having pics. This problem kind of sprung up while my car was being serviced so I didn't bring my camera. I will be going back with some new wheel bolts shortly and will take before and after pictures then.

There are no protrusions on the hub. The wheel sits flush on the hub. We did a series of measurements of the hub, wheel, bolt, backing, you name it. In fact, if you stick the bolts through the wheels you can see there is not a lot of bolt remaining to go into the hub. My preliminary research seems to indicate that there were Three separate bolts manufactured during the 348's lifetime. There is the 80mm used for the rear on the spyder (obviously not applicable). Then there appears to be a 52mm bolt (shank length) and a 55mm bolt (shank length). The 52mm bolt, which is what I purchased from a 348 owner is way TOO short in the front and mildly passable in the rear (but not confidence inspiring). Assuming, that there was also a 55mm bolt for the 348, which I have seen online but have not held in my hand to confirm its existence, that bolt would probably be OK.

The 60mm bolts sold at h&r would seem perfect for the fronts (they go through a little but don't hit anything). I don't know yet if they will work in the back.

I will keep you posted as I go further down the rabbit hole.

 

Thanks. Let me elaborate a little more too.

I spoke to Ricambi America and, according to them, Ferrari lists the 55mm bolt as the standard bolt for the 348. That being said, I can tell you with the utmost confidence that, while that may be true, there are a lot of 52mm bolts on 348's. Ebay is full of sellers unloading their 52mm 348 bolts, and the seller of my bolts is a Ferrari chat member who took them off his car. I guess after all of this, the moral of the story is MAKE SURE YOU USE 55mm bolts!!!!!

My guess, since the 52mm bolts are used on other Ferraris, and probably work just fine on the 348, is that Ferrari used their excess inventory of 52mm bolts on the 348's until they exhausted the supply and then migrated to the longer bolts on later 348's as an economy of scale kind of thing (or vice-versa).

Of course, I cannot guarantee that they work perfectly, as I haven't done any measurements on them, but that extra 3mm on the 55s sure would help front and back

 

As I said in my previous post, that is Ferrari's specs, so I obviously don't disagree with you. That being said, it is what it is...people are pulling 348 wheels with 52mm bolts. I have seen enough used ones for sale to know and the Fchatter who sold me mine pulled them right off his 348 when he upgraded wheels.

By way of comparison, my PCV hose on my Mondial is OEM. It is 3 inches long. When I contacted Ferrari for a new hose, the part number now correlates with a 2 inch hose. Why? According to Ricambi, later cars use a 2 inch PCV hose, so Ferrari now only sells a 2 inch hose and its up to you to make it fit. A friend of mine, who knew those who were with Enzo at the beginning, tells a story, the gist of which is that in the early days of Ferrari, a customers car was parked at a race track and Enzo helped himself to the car's engine when Ferrari's car blew up on the track. This is Ferrari's approach to customer service. So, I am not surprised to find a 52mm bolt where a 55mm bolt should be (assuming it doesn't dramatically compromise safety on a 348), nor a 2 inch hose where a 3 inch hose should be.

I don't mean this to bash Ferrari, reading any of my posts will tell you that I am a diehard fan. However, spend any significant portion of time examining the design details, as I am sure you have, and you begin to wonder...WTF were they thinking!

 

Please remember, I am speaking strictly of putting a 348 wheel on a mondial 3.2. I have never examined a 348 hub nor a Mondial T hub for that matter, for all I know, a 52mm bolt works very well on a 348 and a 55mm works even better. It may also be possible that the earlier 348 front wheels are slightly thicker than the later wheels, hence the requirement for a thicker bolt. I have no idea, which is why it is so important that nobody take my comments out of context and start yanking the wheels off their 348!

The only thing I am concerned with is that nobody make the mistake I did and buy 52mm bolts off somebody's 348 and use them in this application.

 

Just a quick postscript. The mondial/328 hub may be unique in that only a small portion of it is actually threaded. Approximately the first centimeter is not threaded. If the entire hub had been threaded, the difference of 52mm vs. 55 mm would have been immaterial. The 348 hub may be different for all I know.

 

Excellent point...which is why I am leaving it to my mechanic. He did all the measurements already to make sure they are perfect and will do the install. I suppose I could start hunting for 55mm lugs, but at this point, the H&R's look like they are excellent quality, are much cheaper and my mechanic is going to custom shave the rears to take maximum advantage of all of the the available hub space.

 

I don't know the specifics on my car as this was something that rather unexpected. However, it would seem something similar is going on with the mondial, given the fact that the bolt went 5 1/2 turns into the rears and only 3 turns into the fronts.

 

Agreed. However, we are not talking about putting 348 wheels on a 348, but on a Mondial 3.2 Before I made the purchase, I called Ricambi, T-rutlands, a Ferrari dealer and an independent Ferrari shop, as outlined in my old thread. Nobody could tell me the exact size bolts to use. And I called everybody! Therefore, I, like others, relied on other members. The overwhelming consensus is "use the 348 wheel bolts," which I did. However, as I previously stated, for whatever reason, there are a bunch of 52mm wheel bolts on 348's. These do not work. The whole purpose of this thread is to make sure that, if you are using the 348 wheel bolts- make sure the bolts fit perfectly

I don't want to see anyone get hurt because the bolts are too short.

 

With that many options, something has got to fit right . I have to tell you that my OCD kicked in big time on this one. I ended up buying some H&R's at 60mm and am having my mechanic and I are going to cut them down to fit perfectly (I doubt I will have to do anything with the front since there are no clearance issues). Since the 52mm made it 5 1/2 turns in back and only 3 in front, I have a hunch that a set of 55mm would work perfectly in the back but would be little short in the front for my taste. Hopefully, I am wrong.

I will post details and pictures once I get the bolts to the shop.

 

I just got the set of H&R lugs and the finish was appalling. Some were ok, but others look like they were spray painted with silver paint in somebody's garage. Most were matted, chipped, and dull. The difference between these bolts and the Ferrari bolts is night and day. What a bummer. I would post pictures but I doubt anyone really cares...in fact, I doubt anyone really cares about this post at all come to think of it...I've got to get a life!

 

I have just finished the install. Doing some basic calculations, I cut the fronts down to 58mm and the rears to 55. The rears got 8 1/2 turns and the fronts got roughly 6 1/2 to 7 turns. FYI, Ricambi cannot tell you what length bolt you need to put a 348 wheel on a Mondial 3.2. I know because I asked months ago before I went on my bolt hunt. They can only tell you what bolts a 348 wheel takes on a 348.

Until I get my car on a lift, I cant tell you exactly how long the front bolts should be, and maybe 55mm, would be fine. I can tell you, however, that I am comfortable with the turns I got out of the 58mm front bolts I used.

 

http://www.hrsprings.com

They are an aftermarket company that makes, among other things, Ferrari wheel bolts. They were recommended to me by some F-chat members in another thread. They seem to be really well made, but clearly mirror finish was not on their priority list.