I've narrowed several months of 348 searching down to two cars at the moment. 1994 348TS Red / Black 1994 348GTS Blue met / Blue I don't mind blue at all (in fact I think it is quite nice and subtle). Both cars are identical price, nearly identical mileage, serviced by Ferrari, full history etc. The blue one has 'normal' wear and tear (a few stonechips, parking dings etc.) The red one is immaculate, looks like new, and is from a Ferrari dealer. THE QUESTION: Is the GTS 'update' worth enough in engineering terms and value to accept the minimal (but annoying) worse overall condition of the blue car? Any help most appreciated!
Since the colour doesn't put you off, I'd say go for the GTS. It has all the neccessary updates, extra bhp, wider rear track, improved suspension etc. How much extra in $ do they ask for the GTS? /Peter
Hi Peter, they are exactly identical prices down to the last Euro. The TS was actually first registered 3 months after the GTS. I'm flying from France to Germany next Wednesday to see the GTS. I'd love a beige interior but that could become a future project! Chiaro Slag: Main difference I can determine from threads here and elsewhere is about 25 bhp due to different engine management and modified exhaust. Apparently there is a whole mess of minor upgrades that got incorporated too but this is something that is probably not even known in Maranello! Is yours Blue Chiaro? (noting your alias!) On another Bulletin Board it says that Blu Chiaro is the same colour as Tour de France blue but it doesn't look like that when looking at photos. Anyone ever changed the upholstery colour by swapping parts (not painting or recovering)?
In addition to what has been said there is another difference. The GTS model was only released in Europe. The GTS models have all the upgrades that the later cars got. It got the free'r flowing single can exhaust, the upgraded Motronic 2.7 ecu, that had a higher rev limit, 7,800 as compaired to 7,500. The rear axles were different from the earlier cars. The earlier 348's have CV joints that come unbolted on both ends of the half shaft. The later cars only have the CV joint that unbolts from one side, the side that attaches to the trany. This helped to reduce unspring weight in the axle area. The GTS also got the higher gear ratios, in the lower gears, to help lower acceleration times. The battery was moved to the front of the car. The rear wheels had the wider offset to help with high speed stability issues that the ealier cars had. I "THINK" that they also got a taller plenum top, to help with the intake air flow. I say think because I have only seen pictures of the intake on the motor, but haven't seen it on the actual car. So I don't know for sure what model got it. The GTS also got a higher compression ratio. They bumped it up to 10.8/1 from the stock 10.4/1 in all the other models. So the GTS is the one to get.
I also "Think" that the taller plenum is the easiest way of telling that it is a "Type H" Engine! (Typo F119H ??) Paul
Thanks guys for letting me know the differences. dasadrew - Yes, mine is Chiaro blue. I didn't know it was suppossed to be the same as TDF. I think I have had mine pretty close to a 360 TDF, but they didn't look quite the same. I want to say the TDF one is a bit darker.
Is there any number on the VIN plate where I can see if the GTS is a genuine GTS (at least as far as the engine goes)? Wish me luck for Wednesday!
You can tell the GTS engine by the design on the plenum chamber. The TS has 5 straight lines embossed across the length of the chamber. The GTS has 5 on 1/2 the length, 2 on the second 1/2. Hopes that makes sense but a picture, which I don't have, tells a thousand words
The GTS came out in 1993. The TS was stopped in late 1992. The GTS has 320 BHP and not 300 BHP like the TS. Much better engine on the GTS. Larger pelnum chamber to get the extra 20 BHP.
Thanks for all the infos so far guys. I've just spent an hour telephoning around the ferrari dealers local to the car and have found the one who sold the GTS 10 years ago. He confirmed it was a real GTS but said he wouldn't buy the car himself since the first owner just "thrashed" it around different tracks (not racing - probably track days). He got loads of stone chips and he "ruined the drive bearings" (quote from Dealer). The dealer put all the mechanical bits right but the owner had no money for cosmetics or anything above the bare necessities and then the car passed out of this dealer's sight. I'm trying to find out who did the maintenance since then before meeting the car on Wednesday! It seemed to have passed to a lady in part payment for debts who then never used it and sold it to the current owner. So, at least it's a genuine GTS; the mileage also ties up; the number of owners seems correct; the description of fair wear and tear seems correct in that it has not been in a cocoon! BTW, its 40.000km for 42000 Euros. So it looks like back to the original question: a neglected GTS which needs some tidying up and service, or a pristine TS! If I can knock down the GTS price, the prospect of having a bit of a 'project' car somehow attracts me - I must be nuts!!! After all, the GTS could become a pristine car, but the TS could never become a GTS. All further opinions and advice highly welcome!
Unless you can get the GTS for $32,000 -$34,000, I wouldn't do it. I tell you this because I have a car that was used and abused. I have well over $12,000 invested in the car, and that has taken it from bad to poor condition. So unless you are ready to dump loads of money into it, I say get that best keep car you can find.
I have seen both cars now and the GTS is really very good. It has several stone chips, door edge 'abrasion' and a rub on the front wing where luggage has been loaded in, but nothing that can't be corrected. No dents as such. The ca; belt was changed 10000km's ago by Ferrari but that was 5 years ago. Hence it is due to be done on the basis of age but not on the basis of kilometres. If I actually do buy it, then I'll sure be posting plenty of pleas for advice! The 348ts from a Ferrari main dealer lost points 'cos they weren't prepared to offer a guarantee or warranty OF ANY KIND except the legal minimum if you can prove they knowingly sold you a defective item! I found this pretty poor considering they delivered the car new and have done all maintenance on it since then and have just done the 60000km major! What's your opinion on the urgency, if any, of a cambelt change? I have learnt in the meantime that the cambelt is a close brother of the Audi V8 cambelt which apparently gets changed every 90000km's !!!! Also I don't know whether to do stuff myself (I'm technically and toolwise competent enough), let it get done by a Ferrari 'private' workshop, or get it done by Ferrari Main Dealer. The price seems to be a factor of 100%/130%/200% comparing the three and I don't know if a documented but not Ferrari-stamped history would be soooo detrimental when I sell on in 5 years and the car is 15 years old. By the way, on both cars the engine deck dampers failed to support the deck open - is this common?
Larger pelnum chamber. More repsonse and horsepower. Revised valve seats, larger oil and water channels for oil supply, camblet tensioner upgraded. ECU mangement upgaded etc etc.....
elgin, The 348 Spider was the last of the line and had all the upgrades right from the start of production in 93. Regards, Phil.
Well, I did the deal today on the 348GTS! Money and documents have still got to change hands, but the contract is signed. I'm afraid that people looking in Germany or France for a 348GTS for $32000 (= 25000 / £17000) are generally picked up by gentlemen in white attire, so it wasn't quite that cheap! It's got cosmetics to be done, but the test drive was fine, the dealership services are more or less current, the clutch doesn't slip, the brakes are like brand new, it's totally accident-free, it's got 2 new and 2 nearly new tyres and it's Night Blue (blu sera) which is gorgeous! Sometime I'd like to make the interior tan or beige but that will be another story. Right now the only 'unknown' is some very slight oil seapage from the joint between gearbox and engine. It looks golden like gear oil and I've read on this site about a triple seal in that area? Should I treat this urgently? It's snow in Germany now where the car is so it will be hibernating for a while while I get my act together and clean out my garage in France where I ultimately aim to have the car. Welcome me and keep me motivated!
Nice choice and congratulations. As for the leak, it does sound like the triple seal so yes change it. You can perform the work yourself no problem. Others here have done it before, so if you do a search you will find the posts on how to do it. Or better yet have it taken care of by the seller before you take delivery of the car.
Thanks Ernie! As for the seal, I'd prefer to do it myself in peace and quiet rather than have some dubious hurried chewing gum quick fix done by a seller who has already closed the deal! Does your knowledge extend to corrosion around the screws by the door seal which go into the sill? They look like self tappers and it seems that some electrolytic corrosion is taking place. Also, the owner said that the engine deck dampers work ok inbetween spring and autumn but don't have the guts to hold the deck open at -5°C in winter! Any experience? Drew
Yeah I do. If you are talking about the screws that hold the kick plate to rocker pannels on the car don't worry. They are screwed into plastic clips that are pushed in place underneith. You can changes them out for new one's. But be sure to check for rust under the kick plate though. Lots of guys have went to the carbonfiber kick plates, takes cars of the rust issue. The shocks for the deck lid are no big deal. Mine do the same thing. Just take the old one's off and replace them. To take them off there is a cotter pin that locks them on. You can see it clipped just under the cup the pops onto the ball joint. Use a small standard screw driver to release the cotter pin, it wraps around the bottom. The once the pin is released pull it out, this allows the shock to then be popped off of the ball joint. That's it no big deal.
