according to my readings (auction results, advertisments and some few deals reported) : 400 GT : +/- 300.000 to 330.000 in awesome condition 350 GT : +/- 250.000 to 280.000 in similar shape 400 Gt 2+2 : +/- 160.000 to 180.000 idem.. and some cars are more expensive
Hi Olivier, Here are the photos of 412 I mentioned...before the recent (current) black engine paint: http://www.400gt.com/misc/412/ I think if you showed that engine photo to Marcel he'd say "350!" ;^D I'd say it too. Anyway, don't forget a 350Gt just sold in Monterey for 323,171.62 EUR ($440,000) -- that's even with the "incorrect" paint/interior. But it was stunning! (so I hear) Cheers, Fred
fred, I know that pic... it is the one we got from the expert of its 1st auction at Bordeaux this year before summertime... It is not because Edmond Ciclet worked on it and resprayed in black/or/swap for a used black set of cams covers... that it may by doubtful about a 4.0 engine... here are some pics sent to me, give me your expertise on what you see... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
VIN #0850... was delivered to VPM - Lamy, France on 11th January 1967... grigio argento/nero Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Olivier, What does Edmond say about it? 350 or 400 motor? (is the engine number stamped on the motor?) (and why do they keep blacking out portions of these photos? What is it they don't/didn't want us to see?) Anyway, clearly a lambo tranny, and what appears to be salisbury diff. which is typical for the time. (I'm trying to get the diff photos straightened out in my head with little success -- but doesn't look like the Lambo diff) Olivier, if it's a 4-liter engine then it's a 4-liter engine...I've been wrong before. Many cars were refit with them. In fact, the factory even restamped the original engine number back on to the new motor, as far as I know (a practice which continues today). So I don't know anything for sure, but I believe that the earlier (#400 chassis) cars typically were originally delivered with 350 engines. Cheers, Fred
Edmond argued it is a 4.0 engine... but nothing proves it is not a refit... The Auction expert asked the factory for a statement... factory answer : not available for that model VIN chassis... How can we determine then ? I will inspect it this week end... keep you inform !
Well I will flat out say that Edmond is probably right. He's highly regarded, and ... I regard him highly. But as you point out, "nothing proves it is not a refit" -- and there lies the real problem with trying to sort all these cars out. I can imagine that the factory is tired of being asked for statements, because I believe there is nobody there who can figure out what really happened. I'm just guessing, but history is not exactly their strong point. (which is truly a shame) I don't have Ingrid's list, but I believe it would show the car originally delivered with a 350 motor. Most of these cars were. Again... "it's a mess" Cheers, Fred
Ok. Well I guess that's not much of a list -- I have a page or so somewhere, I'll have a look at it. Thanks Olivier, Fred
Oliver -- I am going to upload a photo I look of #454's engine. I know the former owner and we have talked at length about the car and the engine. It was source of much discussion, even in magazines (when it sold at auction there was much confusion about whether it was a true 350 or 400 motor -- see the VLG archives, and Sports Car Market c. August 2006). I am convinced that it is a 400 motor, mainly because of what the previous owner told me about the restoration. But also, I photographed it in Monterey when it (again) went to auction. Again, in this case, it's all about the spacing of the cooling fins on the bottom of the block. With all the discussions of what "might" differentiate a 350 from 400 block ... I'm guessing that Jacques knows his stuff and that the spacing of the cooling fins actually is correct. Back in a bit... Fred
Quick note: it appears the cooling fins (bottom of the block) are spaced: c. 11mm on the 350 block c. 19mm on the 400 block I've been comparing various photos using photoshop, so I'm probably off by a bit -- but not much. Either way you look at it, if you can crawl under 412 and measure the fins you might be able to confirm which block it is. (but of course, still, that doesn't confirm it's the original block -- which is a source of many problems! Fred PS: c. = roughly, because from the photos I'm working from I can't tell exactly. But clearly the 400 fins are spaced further apart than the 350 fins.
PPS: Here are the "fins" of #454, a 4-liter motor (block). The 3-liter block should have the fins closer together. http://www.400gt.com/misc/DSCN0043(27).JPG
We should ask one of VLG member owning a 350 GT to measure exactly the cooling fins as you suggest... and best in "mm" !!!
Olivier, did you notice 412 is now being advertised as a 350GT Interim? http://www.interencheres.com/ventes_aux_encheres/enchere_illustree_1clic.php?clef_vente=201109250007&clef_etude=78007&clef_article=6 That's interesting -- I don't think I've ever seen the term "350GT Interim" used except for in our (VLG) conversations. I wonder why they changed the description? Or is this a completely different outfit advertising it? Fred
"someone"... complained to the expert about the description and the lack of factory documentation... As, the 1st catalog description was already full of mistakes, they modified "stupidely" some infos about #0412... it's even worst than before. For sure, it is NOT a 400 GT, definitevely NOT and I will inspect it for all of us. Ciao, Olivier
Now I Can confirm you it is Not a real 400GT. Having inspected it closely, I Can argue to anyone This is a fake with no factoru documentation... Talk to you next week when I Will be back home...
