355 5.2 Coil packs | FerrariChat

355 5.2 Coil packs

Discussion in '348/355' started by yelcab, Aug 22, 2016.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I need to get some replacements. Is this correct?

    Bosch 0221503407 ?
    It seems ... cheap.
     
  2. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,256
    Serbia - Niš
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    #2 m.stojanovic, Aug 22, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,016
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Yes they r cheap I bought two just for spares, installed and kept the old ones.
     
  4. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
  5. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    7,348
    Kzoo Michigan
    Stupid question but are yours bad or did you tests them and they are not passing?
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I have a misfire and have eliminated wires, plugs. Next is coil and compression.
     
  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,244
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    If it's a coil pack I would expect misfires in two cylinders on the same bank as the 355 uses a wasted spark ignition.
     
  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    It happened once a few months ago and the cure was to remove and clean all the plugs which made it go away.

    This time, it came back with a CEL for O2 sensor. O2 sensor was changed and the CEL went away but the misfire remains. Then cleaning the plugs (one from Cyl 1 was obviously fouled) did not cure it. The plug wires were measured and all 5.7K to 6.1K ohms, so that seems OK.

    Next is to do a compression check tonight. And I will put a timing light on it to see which cylinder(s) is misfiring. The coil, at $50 is cheap enough to keep around as a spare.
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    OK, C1 is definitely mis-firing. The spark plug looks totally black, implying there is fuel but it is not burning well. Changed plug, no difference.

    The wire measures out OK.

    The timing light flashes at the right frequency, so there is spark but I cannot tell whether that is the correct spark or the wasted spark.

    Compression is 225 psi so that it not a problem.

    Next, is the coil and/or the injector.
     
  10. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    Mitch - nothing to do with your coil but how many cranks to measure this value?

    Regarding the coil, yep $50 is cheap but did you try swapping side to side to see if problem moves?

    And, I'm sure you checked but wires from coil going to proper plugs? (Guessing yes or you would have more than one cylinder with an issue)

    Perhaps swapp a wire to check also (even though you measured)
     
  11. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,016
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Mitchel just to let you know when my 99 acted up it was the signal from main ecu to coil that was bad. It was a. Poor crimp in the main plug.
     
  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,244
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    It can't be at the right frequency and flashing only on the wasted cycle. "Right frequency" = both ignition AND wasted. If only wasted it would be flashing at 1/2 the correct frequency. And if only wasted it would suggest the ECU signal is the problem. Coil either generates spark or it doesn't. ECU controls when.
     
  13. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    3,256
    Serbia - Niš
    Full Name:
    Miroljub Stojanovic
    #13 m.stojanovic, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Both, the firing spark and the wasted spark, come from the same secondary windings of the coil so you will either have both or none. However, the ignition coil rarely completely fails; a common failure is weak spark which can cause misfiring (especially stumbling on acceleration) but may still be registered by the strobe lamp which is quite a sensitive device. But if one secondary coil (in the ignition coil) is weak, if you have misfiring on No. 1 cylinder, you would also have misfiring on the No. 4 cylinder (see the diagram, not Ferrari specific; 348 and 355 have the Ignition Module between the ECU and the coil).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I am going to put a scope on the wire connector tonight to see what voltage I am getting at the injector.
     
  15. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I did not have a helper so I cannot tell how many cranks to get to that value. I let it crank over 10 times, stopped, got out, and looked at the value. I actually tested all 8 cylinders because why not? The were all 210 - 225. All four cylinders on one side match up quite well.

    Wires went to the right cylinders. Checked and double-checked. I wonder if old wires were leaking spark out of the side of the wire to the valve cover...

    Just for the hell of it, I will measure the fuel pressure tonight. Easy enough on a 95 with a Schrader valve at the end of the rail. They took that away in 96. What an *****.
     
  16. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    Remote starter switch, Mitch...

    Not picking on you but this is another reason why compression values vary so much..

    It's like the LD debate of 40 vs 100 PSI pressure.

    I need to get with JohnK on this and do an analysis as like an air compressor, there is a max value of compression.

    So, in your case, had you cranked only 9 times (which is my standard from a long term master tech), you would have not reached 225 (which seems high to me)
     
  17. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,630
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    These wire are very delicate

    You can have the slightest "leak" in the extended part that will arc to ground causing this

    Not sure if you did try swapping wires to eliminate that
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,244
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    The F355 has an 11:1 compression ratio. The max pressure that could be reached under ideal, perfectly sealed, isentropic compression would be 28.7 x 14.7 = 421.9 psia or 407.2 pisg. But, the cylinder isn't perfectly sealed, the intake valve is not closed at BDC, and there is heat loss to the cylinder walls, piston, head, etc. valve timing probably reduced the static compression ratio to a dynamic compression ratio to about 10.5:1 and heat loss reduces the compression exponent to maybe 1.25. That would still yield a max pressure of 263 psig. And leakage will reduce it further. Ultimately, you will reach a max pressure governed by the leakage no matter how many time you crank.
     
  19. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    Excellent, John :)

    I've never seen a factory (Ferrari 355) standard for the X number of cranks should = Y PSI

    I'm a bit of the belief that (similar to LD) one could almost get any value they want by altering parameters that are not a standard (BTW, not to say it would be intentional)

    In part, this is why a feel a non-scientific test drive of the car is very valuable :)
     
  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,244
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    general instructions with my tester.

    1) get engine warm (insures rings are expanded, minimized heat loss to block, etc).

    2) Crank a minimum of 5 times, or until pressure is constant. Crank same number of rotations for each cylinder.

    3) Repeat for each cylinder.

    4) pressures should be within 10%

    5) add approx. 1 teaspoon of oil to cylinders.

    6) Repeat tests.

    If number change significantly from dry test, rings are bad. If numbers remain about the same but vary cylinder to cylinder, valves are bad.
     
  21. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    John,

    I know from experience that 5 cranks vs. 10 will result in a large delta in PSI measured.

    I tend to look for the PSI value along with the delta from cylinder to cylinder (all 8).

    An excellent piece of data to have would be a factory new motor and X cranks = Y PSI.

    I might make a block - only tester which would be a cap that has a check valve to allow air in and a volume of the head chamber and check the block only for a learning experience.

    After I rebuild my motor and all is fresh, I will also log some data.
     
  22. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,784
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,244
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Would be my guess if it's only on 1 cylinder. Hit it with an additive.
     
  24. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,598
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Swapped out the ignition wire to C1, no improvement.
    Measured continuity from C1 connector to ECU connector pin 17, it's there. The other pin is 14V when the engine is running so it has power.

    I am down to injector, or ECU
     
  25. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,784
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Did you see how I did that? I waited til everybody else eliminated all other possibilities, and now I look like a genius!!!!



    Or stooge :D
     
    tres55 likes this.

Share This Page