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355 belt change

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by cap10danny, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. cap10danny

    cap10danny Rookie

    Mar 11, 2004
    6
    I'm a 911 race car guy, but now need to remove my 355 engine for the belt change. Anyone know the specifics? I can see that the rear bumper comes off and the cradle comes out, but what's the easiest way, and what stays? I read the links on the 348 but I'm not sure what's different. Any tricks?
     
  2. jenzo

    jenzo Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
    246
    LONDON
    Full Name:
    JENZO
    I had a 355 about 2 years ago, and I can say that the engine never came out to do the belts, you dont need to......


    j3nzo
     
  3. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    Richard Wallace
    Actually to change the Timing/Cam Belts - you do have to drop the engine. As the engine sits on a sub frame - once you disconnect all hoses, wires, etc. You can drop the engine straight down. I will have pictures next weekend of the whole thing... However, I have a mechanic do it - that is a little to much for me to undertake :)

    Rich
     
  4. MarkCollins

    MarkCollins F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2002
    3,198
    South England
    Full Name:
    Mark Collins
    Richard

    I've not seen it but I've heard you can drop the fuel tank out and do the belts with the Engine in situ
     
  5. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    well it can be done this way, quite frankly I would never want my car done in this manner.

    With the engine out one is in a much better position to give a full inspection and check all the items which you cannot do properly by dropping the tanks. Its cheaper yes- not what I would want!
     
  6. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    Richard Wallace
    I have heard others say that you can change them by dropping the fuel tank - but if you look at the room you have to work in - even with the fuel tank out - I do not know how you would still have room to work the belts - effectively. And of course this is not something that you would want to make a mistake on :)

    The best way to do it without dropping the engine (IMO) - Take out the seats - and get a diamond/carbide circular saw blade - cut out a panel behind the seats - make yourself a nice trap door.... Then again - might be better to just take out the engine :)

    But seriously - one advantage of taking the engine out - you have the opportunity to inspect every hose, belt, Vaccum hose, etc. etc. I also use the opportunity to get the engine spotless clean - and even repaint the headers if needed...

    Rich
     
  7. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    Note: you can NOT remove the timing belts without at least lowering the engine about 6 inches. The front pulley HAS to come off and there is no room for you to get a socket on the Bolt with the frame in the way.

    Just take a look for yourself..
     
  8. LA Swede

    LA Swede Formula Junior

    Dec 5, 2003
    369
    SoCal
    This actually sounds like a great idea. You'd think you'd be able to do this modification for a fairly small amount, and do a great job at it. Agreed, you don't get to take the engine out every time and check the gaskets, hoses and every other thing as close as with the engine out. If you drive your car regularly, check fluids etc., you should notice oil leaks, water leaks and such so not taking the engine out doesn't seem like a big loss.

    Any reason not to do this?

    The best way to do it without dropping the engine (IMO) - Take out the seats - and get a diamond/carbide circular saw blade - cut out a panel behind the seats - make yourself a nice trap door....
     
  9. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
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    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    Richard Wallace
    Well - I was not really serious - however your question is not a bad one... However the wall between the engine and seats is a fire wall - and most likely a structural wall as well - so I really don't think it would be wise... I am betting that it could be done - some way - however might kill resale :-0
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,098
    The Cold North
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    Tom

    Umm you would still have to remove the gas tank. Because the tank sit directly behined the the fire wall. There really would be no use to do such a thing.
     
  11. Mickey

    Mickey Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    409
    Linnet Drive
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Can you describe how you (or your mechanics) did the belt change ???
     
  12. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    15,098
    The Cold North
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    Tom

    I really can't see how doing the 355 belt change with the engine still in the car would be possiable. You would never beable to loosen the crank pulley because it's just about an inch or 2 from the frame cross member. You can even get a socket in there..or a wrench..

    The pully must be removed or slid forward on the crankshaft to beable to remove and install the timing belts. If you did not remove the crank pully, then the only way to install the belts would be to twist and bend and push on them with a screw driver until they slip around the cam drive pully. This will ruin the belts!!

    If anybody can show me how this can be done with the engine in the car,I will fly out to were ever you are to witness it with my own 2 eyes. (well maybe just post the pic's :)).
     
  13. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    my understanding of this process is as follows.

    drop the fuel tanks remove rear mumber/exhaust ect and remove / loosen engine mounts then force the engine back with a bar to give just enough clearance to remove bottom pulley and put belts on.

    Its saves time and thats the only thing it saves I would not feel safe with this method at all
     
  14. FL 355

    FL 355 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2002
    1,665
    Ft Laud
    Full Name:
    Frank Lipinski
    You have to pull the motor for all the reasons stated above. Additionally, no one has mentioned the tensioners and possible water pump inspection/change.
     
  15. rossocorsa

    rossocorsa Karting

    Jan 29, 2004
    230
    UK
    Full Name:
    Colin
    Hi,to change belts in situ,remove fuel tank.Remove 2 engine mounting bolts and 2 gearbox mounting bolts.Engine can then be moved back 30-40mm.Then raise engine at front with hydraulic jack,this then allows you to loosen crankshaft sprocket.Access to the belts and tensioners etc is very restricted and I would not recommend this procedure for a belt(s) change.However it definately can be done!
     
  16. tonyh

    tonyh F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 23, 2002
    14,372
    S W London
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    Tony H
  17. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    I'm in the midst of a 348 major (see other post) - similar concept as F355 so I'll chime in. I have to agree with T.Bakowsky & crew - Clearly there is a way to change the belts with the engine in, but there is usually a WHOLE lot more that should be done that is best executed with the engine out. Besides it is not all that hard to do. The car is designed for it.

    With my engine out, I immediately spotted several hoses, seals and clamps on their way out, etc that I doubt would have been detected with the engine in. Then don't forget there's the water pump, belt tensioners etc. There's a lot more to the service than just replacing the belts. Actually I have read that belt is the last thing to fail unless exposed to oil. The tensioner bearings may fail first.
     
  18. cinquevalvole

    cinquevalvole Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,149
    Germany, Bayern
    Hi LA Swede,

    would you cut out a panel on your own 355? Already done?
    Can you show us some pictures?

    THX

    cinquevalvole
     
  19. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 5, 2003
    893
    Maple Valley, WA
    Full Name:
    Dave Tegeler
    I just had mine done by Ron Tonkin in Portland as part of the 30K service. With 13K total miles on my 97 Spider, the bearings on the tensioners gone, water pump starting to leak and a complete A/C service. With the engine out you can easily replace all the perishable hoses (6-years old), have the valve covers re-finished which I had done also. the extra $3-5K to have it done right on a $90K car is worth it. Labor savings on doing these things with the engine out more than pays for the Labor to pull the engine. As you can tell from my logo it made it easy to consider polishing the transaxle cover, which a number of people in our local club with 355s are now considering.
     
  20. cap10danny

    cap10danny Rookie

    Mar 11, 2004
    6
    got a great response to my belt change question,but it looks like I'll go ahead and pull the engine anyway. I've got an oil leak coming from somewhere on the right side,and I really want the extra room to make sure the belts go on correctly. I have an 8,000 mile 95 that's never had ANY service other than oil changes!! Got it from an acquaintance that has 11 other Ferrari's in A/C storage, so we'll just see how these babies age in perfect conditions. I plan on pulling the engine this week. On another note, I keep blowing the fuse that controls the door locks. not right away, but every week or so. Makes it kind of difficult to troubleshoot. Any ideas?
     
  21. knight355

    knight355 Rookie

    Dec 11, 2003
    10
    Guys,

    Never have I known one single topic to cause such confusion! Yes everyone has their opinion but guys dropping the engine is a long and costly process with very few merits. I am no mechanic and unlike others on here i'm not going to attempt at giving early learning centre-esque instructions on doing a cambelt change but rather leave it to the expert who has done countless in situ and engine out. Give Karl at Verdis a call on 0208 756 0066, I have spoken to him and he is ready to answer anyones questions about the cambelt changes. I honestly feel those who do call him will be pleasantly surprised. Remember guys good knowledge is priceless, you have nothing to lose by calling him.

    Regards,
    Knight
     
  22. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,974
    Very little is different when compared to dropping a F348 engine.

    Some claim to be able to change belts with the engine in the car. When we did my major this winter, we found 8 hoses in unseeable places that needed to be changed. With the engine in the car, these hoses would be waiting time bombs. With the engine out, they are easily accessible.
     
  23. nige1

    nige1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2004
    26
    London
    the service book says change them every 4 years/60000km.
    mine were done 3 years/8000miles ago.
    do I really need to change them?
    (I had an annual service 1 year/2750 miles ago, cost £2000!)
    thanks for any advice....
     
  24. vref

    vref Karting

    Dec 18, 2003
    214
    1 Hr North of Housto
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I have seen a guy weld a socket to a wrench which fits, so I guess it can be done.

    What I don't understand is you have a asset worth $90K ish and people want to half ass the car, by cutting holes in the car, removing the gas tank etc. The car was designed to have the engine pulled, its really not that hard to do, because it was designed that way, so why are people dying to half ass the car?

    This is maybe why these cars depreciate so much when used, people dont want to pay what it really costs to maintain the car properly, so as a buyer, you never know what your really getting when one goes used. What corners have been cut?


    If your going to cut a structual firewall behind the seat, do the car and yourself a favor, sell it to somone who will love it and maintain it properly.
     
  25. Frari

    Frari Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,186
    brisbane australia
    Full Name:
    tony
    If you search the archives there is a thread that one of our chatters has done with photos and full explanation on how to change belts. it also goes into other components that require checking or changing whilst the engine is out.
     

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