355 cabin earths/fuse block earths. 1996 5.2 NO SPARK!!!!! | FerrariChat

355 cabin earths/fuse block earths. 1996 5.2 NO SPARK!!!!!

Discussion in '348/355' started by Beetle, Nov 13, 2017.

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  1. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Hello I have an intermittent NO SPARK issue which i thought i had fixed. Can someone give advise as to where the Main Fuse/relay block earth is and also any other earth terminals inside the cabin. I'm pretty sure i have all the earths on the engine and battery to isolator/body sorted. My car has the strap from the alternator to the chassis added already. i have power at the coils when ignition is on. i have replaced all fuse and relays in the block. Is there any thing else that i could check?. I'm sure its just an earth problem but could be wrong?. Battery has been load tested i even added a jumper pack to assist it still would not fire up. Engine cranks over very well. Immobilizers have had new battery's also as has the siren. I have also recently replaced the crank angle and phase sensors hoping to eliminate any problems to no avail. Thanks in advance
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    You'll probably find that although the power is centralised (either the battery terminal behind the fuse/relay panel or the ignition lock), the earths will be where the power users are. In the case of engine systems, mostly in the engine bay.

    The ECU controls the firing. I can't recall if you've changed the ECU.
    When you say intermittent, do you mean the car starts one day, but doesn't start the next? Or does the engine cut out after being started (say, after a few minutes or longer)?
     
  3. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Starts one day then not the next. Quite frustrating. I'm reluctant to use contact cleaner on the ECU. I may have to clean that with old fashioned elbow grease lol
     
  4. F355Bob

    F355Bob Formula 3

    No spark on either bank or just one bank? After my major I had no spark on one bank and it turned out to be the ground that goes to the head on that side.
     
  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    1996, 5.2 has one ECU and only one grounding point from the wiring harness. It is at the back of bank 1 head. You can see that ground standing at the back of the car with the lid open. Need more description from OP to offer a guess.
     
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  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    How did you come to the conclusion it's the spark and not fuel? Do you have one of those spark detectors attached to the leads? Is there no spark on all 8 leads?

    If there is no spark on all 8, to me, it seems unlikely that it will be the contacts on the 5.2 ECU (unless the plug is really contaminated). The 2 coil packs (each with two coils) are triggered by four different ECU pins. If it's an ECU problem, it's more likely to be internal.
     
  7. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Having said that, you might want to clean the ECU pins associated with the crank and phase sensors.
     
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  8. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    5.2 no spark both sides only 1 ecu
     
  9. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    I'm leading towards a fuse/relay block problem. Fuel pump fuse has deformation but not blown which tells me there is an issue possibly on the internal board? Dry joints
     
  10. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Timing light offered no light while cranking on multiple cylinders
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Oh, when it is malfunctioning, there is no spark to all cylinders...

    There is a known intermittent connection at one of the larger connector pairs underneath the steering column. That could give you that symptom. Did you look at the fuses for the radiator fans. They tend to get hot and melt the board which leads to connection problems with other circuits.
     
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  12. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Cheers for that I will check that or those plugs. Relays for fans have been relocated away from board. Currently checking the board out for internal problems. So far looks really good except for plug/pin contamination were they plug in on the rear of the board
     
  13. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Just checked plugs at columb???? Main power cable plug from ignition was partially unplugged due to being caught in in steering columb adjustment lever????? man that has gotta be at least part of the problem you would think. Every time you adjust the steering it is working the plug loose DOHHHHHH
     
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  14. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Ok so i have removed and checked fuse/relay block Some soldered joints have already been repaired and board looked really good. I cleaned all the terminals on the back of the board and reinstalled it, checked and re-clipped the main plug at the steering column and still NO Spark. Put a fuel pressure gauge at the fuel filter pressure point and have plenty fuel pressure when the engine is cranked so i may be wrong in assuming the if i have fuel pressure i must have a functioning crank angle reference sensor? Is it possible to have the ECU bench tested?? or can both coils just **** them selves at the same time?? any help greatly appreciated
     
  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    This is going to sound really stupid, by does you CEL work? I.E, comes on when ignition is switched on, goes out when car starts? And, have you bothered to try to read the codes? Or doesn't it work that way in AU.

    Next, have you check the ECU signal at the coils? Or at least at one coil.
     
  16. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Finding it hard to get a code reader that will work? the one i have worked once and i deleted the faults and now i wont connect to the ecu anymore Im going to do some more diagnosis on the weekend. Also how would i check the coil Signal? Would it be 5 volts? I know it needs 12V power but unsure of what trigger signal to look for while cranking
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Would you have the number of that company in Australia which can recover ECU immobiliser pin numbers? Perhaps they also have the technology to check circuit weaknesses. It was mentioned on the forum, but I can't find the message thread.
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    You may need a cathode ray oscilloscope to read that one. It's a pulsed signal ( similar to a square wave) with a voltage drop (?) which triggers the coils. There are diagrams of the waveforms shown in the WSM (in the 2.7 section).
     
  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    At this point, I would find a willing friend with a 5.2 ECU and swap it out to see if the error follows the ECU. That will eliminate a very big potential problem and let you focus on other things.
     
  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    But what about the check engine light. Is it functional? If so, on the occasions the car does start, does it go out or stay lit? If not functional do you know why (disconnected, bad bulb,.....)?
     
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  21. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    The check engine light goes out when engine is first fired up after its system check. It goes out within about 5 to 10 second after the engine is running
     
  22. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    I spoke with specialised ecu services in Florida this morning and they believe it's a wiring issue as it's intermittent but are happy to bench test if I send ecu fob and immobiliser unit to them
     
  23. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    I have spoken to Michael Ian and he also given me a few things to check I'm just waiting on my continuity tester to show up
     
  24. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Hello All
    With some help we have found the ECU to be defective/dead. Thanks for everyone's help/assistance and idea's as to what the issue could have been. If the ecu cant be repaired i will be in search of a USA spec gated 6 speed 5.2 ecu. Thanks again
     
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  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Ouch. Sorry to hear there wasn't a simpler/cheaper solution

    Anyway, sounds like you won't have to worry about this one anymore.

    By the way, did you record the resistance values for the coils? Just curious.

    Cheers
    Ian.
     

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