I've been lent a book with the title "Service Time Schedule" it's for a 355 and shows what time should be taken to do just about every job that can possibly be done on a 355, from drive in to drive out. Interestingly (to 355 owners at least) it shows that a cam belt change done with the engine in the car should take 7.3 hours including R&R fuel tank, and if you do the tensioner bearings as well, then add an extra 30 mins. Some people would like owners to believe that this is some sort of 'short cut' and is a bad way to proceed. Whilst I agree with that if it were the first time you were having it done (apparently you can't check cam timing), if it's your car and you know the cam timing is correct, then I can't see any downside, and if it's in a factory service times book, then I can't see how it can be much of a 'short cut' either. this means it SHOULD cost about $800 plus parts if done this way....and unless there's some specific reason why you want your engine out (oil leaks, cleaning etc) I reckon that's what you should do! engine R&R appears to be around the 20 hour mark, which would probably make it 22 hours all up plus parts. Thoughts?
i didnt know that, the Ferrari book that I have reckons its an engine out job. how many unscrupulous mechanics would charge engine out and do the belts with engine in.............now that wouldnt happen would it?
what book is that? a bit like the guy with the 308GTSi...had service records showing balance, tuning etc of all carburettors! i keep saying mechanics are the curse of ferrari ownership. if you don't have your wits about you, you risk being taken advantage of by a desperate mechanic. some of them are very good at saying exactly what you need to hear. i could give many examples!
The Ferrari times ( and a lot of other ones ) are very tight - they assume "best case" circumstances for every part of the job. Real world times for an experienced mechanic with all the right tools are probably 10-15% more, assuming everything goes well. I've compared my times against "the book', and found that I am anywhere between 40 and 60% off ( because I am careful ) A belt only change will get the job done with regards to mitigating against belt breakage, so it's a valid thing to do, but IMHO to get the absolute best out of the engine, you need to check the timing every time you put a new belt on. The next time my 355 is due for a major, I'll pull the engine because the time doesn't matter, I can check the timing and I'ts much easier to clean everything with the engine out. Also, I hate fiddling around doing jobs in confined spaces, when I don't have to. M
Job in progress with engine in..... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Possible variances in belt length. On my GTB i'm on the 3rd set of belts since the engine rebuild, every time I've needed to adjust the cam pulleys to get the marks to line up perfectly. (Fortunately it's not really much extra work on that car, because the cam covers have to come off to set the valve clearances anyway). I'm assuming the same possibility for variances exist with the 355 - you wouldn't know unless you took the cam covers off to check. (and assuming the factory timing marks are correct on the cams in the first place ) - with the engine out you can use a degree wheel and a dial indicator to make sure it is ok. No, but put the car on my hoist and had a look, admittedly the fuel tank was in the car at the time. But it looked tight to me, although your pics indicate otherwise. M
hmmmmmmmm...not 100% sure i buy that, and certainly there are plenty of people who do it without removing the engine. i just can't see why ferrari would put it in this time schedule book if it weren't an acceptable way to do it. with respect to the times, i know a proficient mechanic can meet those times all going well, but regardless, just using it as a guide it shows a massive difference in cost. i don't mind spending the money, but not if it's unnecessary.
yes mike...i've read that thread and others numerous times. i still can't get my head around why it'd be in this offical ferrari document i've got if there was a fundamental problem with it.
It's acceptable but not optimal. The engine will still run, and it will have a new belt, so from a reliability perspective, it's certainly dealt with. The other question is weather or not the possibility of a small potential for improved performance is worth the extra cost of engine out service, I'd guess and say at best there is maybe 1 or 2% extra performance available , and I don't think I would notice that, especially the way I drive, so it's probably not worth it. Last engine out service I had I was billed for ~42 hours, but this included a heap of other stuff as well and there was no clear breakdown of hours. I was there for 2 days "helping", maybe that's why it cost extra. No doubt you've seen the sign in workshops ? $80 per hour for labour $100 if you watch & ask questions $120 if you help M
Yep that, and back to 4 valve heads, which seem to be much less trouble prone..... Still thankful for small mercies, at least the 355 has hydraulic lifters. M
This has some pearls of wisdom: Remove and Refit engine 23 hours Total overhaul of engine 111 hours Setup, retorque heads, valve clearances 17 hours Total 151 hours Lets call it a month. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I agree (from the information and time lines provided) that if you are just fitting a belt and maybe tensioner bearings then taking the fuel tank would seem to be the most time effective way to complete the job. But if more work is necessary then removing the engine may become necessary. So, another thing to think about is how often is a problem sighted due to the engine cradle being on the workshop floor and full access being possible, what I mean is, is it possible you are missing a problem due to taking the short cut? Food for thought.
there's that term again 'short cut' it's not a short cut, it's one way of doing the job and ferrari ratifies it. don't know what else you could miss. it's not like you can't see everything with the engine in. my engine's brand new right now and i know everything's perfect with it. I certainly won't have a problem changing the belts with the engine in the car, as long as nothing else turns to crap in the meantime.
One time I had the belts done the timing had jumped a tooth, believe a small stone may have got between belt and cog. Don't know if this is possible on 355.
ouch! you were lucky. i guess anything's possible. from what i can tell, people are marking the cam wheels and crank, so any change in the timing would be picked up.
