Mark Thank you! Some hard facts at last! Now we need to check whether the modification was carried out on the cars that caught fire. Do you, Mark, or anyone else, have access to the database that would identify cars that have or have not been modified?
How do you know when you have over filled your gas tank? Do you wait until the fuel dispenser stops or is that too late?
The petrol will actually travel back up the filler neck and leak out . Look for the liquid under the petrol tank side rear wheel.
Clive sadly not but if you call Ferrari UK they'll problably confirm if yours has been done fwiw When I had my 328 at 12 years olf Ferrari UK wrote ot me to say a recall hadn't been done on lower front wishbone mounts, booked it in to Maranello's all done, I was impressed, 12 year old car, 6th owner
If you look at the two fuel lines above and in front of the engine, along the fire wall, you'll see that the bottom one has a fitting about 1/2 of the way across. It should have the tightening piece facing down, not up into the above line. That's what the bulletin was about. The recall was another matter altogether. Art
below is a link to UK recalls on most models 328 on http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/recalls/index.jsp?makeName=Ferrari&makeId=B2
Sorry there are more of the same o nthe 355 issue, I think just more serial numbers AND ANOTHER ONE ON FUEL TANKS ON LATER SPIDERS Description: POSSIBLE FUEL LEAKAGE VIN: 102261 TO 106739 Build Date: During 1995 and 1997 Numbers: 318 Defect: The fuel line retaining nuts may split after tightening if the recommended torque has been exceeded. This can cause leakage of fuel with an attendant risk of fire. This recall augments recall R1997/55, but only applies to cars built after the launch of that recall. Action: The remedy involves recall of the affected vehicles for replacement of the fuel lines. Launch Date: 03 February 1998 * * Recall: 5 of 12 Recall Ref: R1998/06 Exact Model: Description: POSSIBLE FUEL LEAKAGE VIN: 106718 TO 110435 Build Date: Between August 1996 and September 1997 Numbers: 308 Defect: An incorrectly positioned water hose retaining clamp may chafe on a fuel hose which can damage the hose and result in fuel leakage. Action: Affected vehicles are being recalled to have the hose clamp screwed clear of the fuel hose. Launch Date: 27 January 1998 Description: POSSIBLE DAMAGE TO FUEL TANK DURING VEHICLE ASSEMBLY COULD RESULT IN A FUEL LEAK VIN: 111986 - 112666 Build Date: January 1998 to May 1998 Numbers: 22 Defect: Possible damage to fuel tank caused during production installation of Spider roof mechanism. A fixing screw of the roof mechanism trim cover may make contact with the fuel tank, and cause possible leakage. Action: Recall affected vehicles for examination and replacement of fuel tank if found necessary. Launch Date: 18 June 1998
I had a few comments/PM's suggesting I post this info on this thread. It was originally posted over in the UK section. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55058 I have also added a bit of extra info. Edited original post: Looking at Eric's pictures, the seat of the fire seems to be on the right side, basically the oil in the oil tank went up. The question is whether this is a secondary issue, i.e. fire started by petrol, then the oil tank went up. Not many people realise how dangerous engine oil is in starting engine fires. If it drips onto an exhaust it will just sit there getting hotter until it flashes. A small quantity of petrol just tends to evaporate quickly. The 355 has the oil tank/cooler line flange just above the exhaust manifold. If this leaks then oil will just drip onto the exhaust. It can be a time bomb. Also, the crankcase vent breather hoses can perish badly and need to be renewed. The first picture shows the tank/manifold relationship. The arrow points to the oil pipe flange (ignore the piece of rag stuffed in it!). You can see that if this is leaking it will go straight onto the exhaust. It's also tricky to spot if you have a leak without really looking for it. The second picture shows a close-up of the breather hose on my car before renewal (circled in the first picture). The rubber was rock-hard and wouldn't take much to split right open. This is also on the right hand side above the manifold. The third pic shows the main power cables for the starter motor and alternator. These are held in position by a 'P' clip directly above the clutch housing. As the engine runs the vibration and the temperature ages the insulation and protective braiding. This is only visible if you look underneath the outer sheathing. It is obvious that given time this insulation could rub through giving a direct connection to the vehicle ground. An electrical fire would follow. It looks like the forward part of Eric's engine bay was relatively unscathed and this is where the fuel unions live. I'm not saying the fire wasnt started by petrol, but I thought it might be worthwhile to share with everybody the importance of making sure these joints on the tank are oil-tight and that the little heatshield on the tank is in good shape (oil saturation can destroy the resin bonding). IMO the 355 is NOT an inherantly bad design for fire safety (with the possible exception of the rediculous fuel hose clamp on the later 355's). However, we should remind ourselves that these cars are designed for high performance. When they are 10 years old (as mine is this year) rubbers and plastics can become brittle and small failures can easily become saftey critical. In a "regular" vehicle with lower engine compartment temperatures ageing and failiures are less critical. There are also other potential fire hazard points in a 355 (or any other high-performance car) -- what we are talking about here is proper preventative maintenance. Get a GOOD mechanic you can trust, or learn how to do it yourself. The interesting thing about the recalls listed by Mark is that they're mostly about over-torquing away from specification, i.e. bad 'shop practice. When you get a 30K service done, find a workshop that goes beyond the service schedule and actually looks at all the hoses, pipes and cables to make sure they're OK. I don't see why a WELL MAINTAINED 355 would burst into flames. RF. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
**UPDATE** Spoke to the loss adjustor this afternoon and he has written the car off. The fire was definitely on the right hand side of the engine bay. He is unsure as to the exact cause, but he felt it was an electrical fire. I asked what he thought of me arranging an inspection by a fire investigation unit, he honestly didn't think it would shed any conclusive light on what the real cause was, and I would perhaps be wasting my time. This is as far as the insurance investigations are going to go as there are no suspicious circumstances surrounding the fire.
Thanks for the update. Maybe you could ask a fire investigator to take a look at it. These guys are experts. It couldn't hurt. I would have no trouble finding an investigator here that would give it a once over. Might find nothing, but you never know. I'm guessing the insurance adjustor is saying electrical because that's how a lot of other car fires start.
I don't think this is something the insurers will pay for as they are only concerned that the fire was accidental. If Eric decides to take the investigation further himself, i think we [355 owners] should establish a "fighting fund " to cover the cost.
Well I'd be happy to contribute, but I ment just contact the fire dept. and ask the fire investigator if he/she would take a look. Either way....
Why is everybody *****footing round this subject if you dont take the engine out you cant inspect everthing properly shortcuts cause problems how do you get the bottom pully off with the engine in and check the cambelt tensiniors ??? my car is having a belt service now its a f512m and the alloy nuts on some fuel lines have hairline cracks in them as these are pressurised when they are taken on and of eventually they will split and spray fuel everywhere and cause a fire i will post pictures of the cracks in nuts if possible on the recall they fit new pipes with alloy nuts again so what good are they
Agree with Steve here !!! When I had my 348 18K service,(engine out) the fuel line alloy nuts were replaced due to the old ones having hairline cracks. They split very easily when tightened This is common on Fcars I believe.
Here is another one. This one seems explainable as a repair issue with the fuel system. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58400
A few years ago, I had heard of a low mileage (meaning didn't have or need any service work to the fuel tank, belts) 1998 355 catching fire after it had backed into a tree. Since it backed into a tree, I doubt it was moving very fast. Maybe there is a fitting that is susceptible to leaking fuel after a small shunt or improperly torqued after servicing.
I haven't seen this posted yet....so it's well worth throwing in: I carry a fire extinguisher in my 355, for several reasons: If I catch fire If someone else catches fire and just to throw-off "Murphy's Law"...if I got one, I won't need it Seems a lot of fires happen right after the 30k or some major service
We have some clarification on whether in situ belt changes is likely cause of these problems; IT ISN'T- the post below is copied from a current UK thread ; http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58398 Sorry to speak out here, but I have to point out that whether you drop the engine, or drop the fuel tank, the fuel connections get dismantled. In actual fact on the 355, if the tank is dropped the critical connector (the clamp on the PAS reservoir bracket) doesn't need to be touched. The deciding factor is the diligence and competence of the person doing the job, one method or another doesn't make any difference if you've got a muppet working on your car. I know this is a hot topic so I will point out that I've no axe to grind regarding dealers, or the engine out/engine in debate. The point I really wanted to make is that when (if) you find a mechanic who pays ABSOLUTE attention to detail, and who knows what he's doing then don't let him go!!!
