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355 Challenge for Track&Club Racing

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by redcar1, Oct 31, 2004.

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  1. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #1 redcar1, Oct 31, 2004
    I am, again, toying with the idea of buying a 355 Challenge for track days & club racing. I think NASA will have 6 Texas dates next year, and they will always have room somewhere in “closed wheel”.

    Rob, are you thinking of doing any NASA or SCCA with your 355C? Is SCCA accepting them as T1? ITE? Are there “SCCA” issues w/ roll cage, fuel cell, fuel sample???

    Are Fchatters “club racing” these cars in other areas? Anyone know of a car available?

    Thanks for any advice.

    Mark McKenzie
     
  2. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    #2 FLATOUTRACING, Oct 31, 2004
    As with any question the answer is "...it depends".

    First off is your goal to have a car you can run at FCA track events (and obviously you want a Ferrari) and also be able to race in SCCA and NASA?

    Second, do you want to just have fun and learn to race or do you want to be competitive and get to the Run Off's and maybe even win them ?

    Third does cost enter the equation (cost to race) ?

    You can still run the 355 C in T1 as far as I know. You can also run it in ITE (regional class) and lastly you can run it in a little known class such as SPO (would need some modiciations mostly saftey).

    In NASA you would simply be put into "Big Bore" group and would be racing with GT1/TA, Porsche Cup cars, and other high horsepower exotics.

    Now onto "competiveness" and "cost" !!!!

    The 355 Challenge will be competitive against the newer Z06's and Vipers in T1 but you will have to get every last bit of performance out of the car to stay up front. Some tracks like Lime Rock, Summit Point, Mid Ohio you would be just as quick but at other tracks like Watkins Glen or some of the tracks like Pocono and Texas (Banked ovals) you would have trouble keeping up.

    Cost !!

    While buying a 355 C is cheap these days (60K) maintaining them isn't, especially if you want to race competively. Clutches are $600 (not too bad). Rotors however will set you back anywhere from $400-$650 and will last you a weekend of racing.

    Depending on class, slicks can be anywhere from $200-$400 a tire and will also last one weekend (they will still be able to be used for practice but not fast lap times).

    Lastly the most expensive items are of course the gearbox and engine rebuilds. Engines can cost anywhere from 20K for a top end rebuild (head and valves) to 35K and up for a total rebuild. Gearboxes range from 5-7K to 12K.

    All these figures include parts and LABOR at a competant dealer.

    Two or three years ago when new Z06's were 45K and a 355 C was 100K (used) it made little sense to race a 355 C unless you were just a Ferrari nut and wouldn't consider racing anything BUT a Ferrari. With prices for 355 C's in the 60K range and a decent race prepped z06 going for 50-60K it's not such a bad deal anymore but you still have much more expense come rebuild time.

    The other cost that I can relate to having had two off track incidents with contact is that body work on a Ferrari is not cheap compared to a Corvette or even a Viper.

    My two incidents cost me 30K and 18K and were not bad in terms of major damage. I took the car to one of only 4 authorized factory shops in the US and likely could have gotten the car repaired for half that but even at 15K and 9K (half the cost) it was still twice as expensive as my friend's Z06 which he has crashed a number of times.

    Basically it boils down to how competitive you wish to be and how much money you are willing to spend (or risk in the case).

    Hope this helps?

    Also talk with Martin W. he has some 355 C's I think, one of which a friend of mine owned.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod (ex-owner of #23 last 355 C built in North America)
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
  3. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #3 redcar1, Oct 31, 2004
    Exactly! In addition to doing informal track days.

    Have fun and learn, I've been roadracing a Factory Five Cobra replica with NASA for a few years, with an oddball non spec legal car; so I'm comfortable not chasing a seasonal point tally or class finishing order

    Cost is certainly a factor, but I'm willing to pay a certain "Ferrari Tax" to be able to run a Ferrari, and running up front or contending for seasonal points is not a high priority. I went through the ITE, SP shell game with SCCA here in Texas with my Cobra, and it really soured me on SCCA, but if they would acccept a Challenge car, that would give me the opportunity for more race wknds.

    Thanks For The Help.

    Mark McKenzie
     
  4. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
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    Martin W.
    #4 Cavallino Motors, Nov 1, 2004
    The 355 will for sure be more money to run competitively. But then this should not come as a big shock to you.

    For SCCA you will need to modify all of them. OMP roll cages as sanctioned in Challenge are bolted together in varous parts. SCCA requires a welded cage. So you will need a new cage no matter what.

    355s have a competitive edge on twisty courses but lack the HP tourque of the Vettes on fast tracks.

    I can not give you recommendations as to which car is better. jon would be the better person to comment about that.

    Yes I do have a 355CH from Peter Unverdorben, that I am selling. www.4Ferrari.com or use the sponsor link on F-Chat. I also have a 348 and 360Challenge for sale.

    The 360 will be in Moroso next weekend and is then shipped to New Orleans for French Quarter Classic.

    The 355s are great track toys. Factory built for racing. easy to maintain since you do not need a SD2 to diagnose every bit.

    Feel free to call me Tuesday to Thursday this week if you want to talk.

    Martin
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2000
    63,962
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    #5 rob lay, Nov 1, 2004
    Hey Mark, still thinking it over?

    Harrison Williams was racing his 355 C with us this weekend at the SCCA Texas Motor Speedway race.

    The car has to be less than 10 years old for T1. This would be the last year for my 95. However, you could get an exception and run regionally.

    The 355 C is just not competitive anymore in T1. Especially the long SCCA tracks we have here with TWS and TMS.

    The car doesn't qualify for ITE in SW Div. because it has more than 3.0 liters. You could qualify for SP if you had the proper cage and fuel cell. Most 355 C's don't, but Dana's is one that was upgraded to I think a SP legal cell.

    NASA you can do what you want. They'll accept about anything. You know I thought of starting a Ferrari race series here, but you just can't beat the low cost and fun of Spec. racing.

    If I can get a proper Storage-Transport-Paddock policy from my new insurance agent (an FC user), then I might consider racing both the SRX7 and Challenge at NASA MSR events only (I think only two races next year).

    The costs are nothing unless something goes wrong. It costs me the same to run the Challenge per weekend as the SRX7. The pads and rotors on the Challenge last much longer than our SRX7 brakes.
     
  6. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #6 redcar1, Nov 1, 2004
    Martin,

    Thank you. I will call you later this week.

    Rob,

    I am again pondering which way to go.

    At the moment, I’m inclined to stop racing the Cobra, and put it back to street trim, probably sell the 348 which I very rarely drive and replace it with a 355 Challenge to race with NASA and do track events. NASA has 6 dates next year, 3 MSR, 1 TWS, 1 Hallet, and one at NPR in Louisiana (?), have you been to NPR?

    I’m going to go look at Dana’s car this week, Moorespeed is getting it ready to go to Sebring, and I like all he’s done to it. It is a little spendy, and I would prefer red. Dana’s silver is nice, but if you and I end up at the track together it might look a little "matchy"??

    Do you happen to know if Dana’s cage is SCCA legal? Do you know anyone looking for a super clean 348ts?

    Thanks.

    Mark McKenzie
     
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    #7 rob lay, Nov 1, 2004
    Next year will be the first for me.

    I'm almost certain it is, I know it's not the FIA cage like I have.
     
  8. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    Apr 3, 2001
    11,238
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    Randy
    #8 Schatten, Nov 1, 2004
  9. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
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    Martin W.
    #9 Cavallino Motors, Nov 4, 2004
    I wonder if the 355GT wopuld qualify for anything in SCCA ?!?!?
     
  10. CMac

    CMac Formula Junior

    May 10, 2004
    310
    Gig Harbor Wash.
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    Chris McDonald
    #10 CMac, Nov 4, 2004
    Hey Martin....just checked out your site and those pictures of the 97 you have for sale look awfully familiar???? In fact, they are of my car you sold me back at the beginning of summer. I actually bought it through BHCC but none the less, it is my car you have posted.....why not the actual car?
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    #11 rob lay, Nov 4, 2004
    Wouldn't qualify for any National SCCA classes.

    In SW Div. it could qualify for SP with a little work.

    In other Div. it would fall under ITE, SPO, SP, or who knows what else each Div. has invented.
     
  12. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
    Full Name:
    Mark
    #12 redcar1, Nov 8, 2004
    I'm actively looking for a Challenge car. I'd love to trade my 348ts if anyone knows of a potential swap.

    There's a Euro 355 Challenge at Ferrari of Central Florida, anyone have any insight?

    Thanks.

    Mark
     

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