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355 engine bay temp / aftermarket headers

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by slickV8, Jun 2, 2008.

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  1. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

    Jun 2, 2008
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    #1 slickV8, Jun 2, 2008
    hi, i'm new to the world of ferrari and just having some work done on my '99 355 F1.
    I've fitted stebro headers, free flow cats and am waiting on delivery of muffler [the one that cam is for a manual car not an F1] so i've connected up the ferrari original muffler. problem is [might be!?] the engine bay runs significantly hotter at present, we ran a stock 355 next to mine and measured the air temp just above the header pipes on both. stock car was circa 55 deg C and mine was running at over 80 deg C. Stebro think the cats may be faulty and are sending me some test pipes with the replacement muffler but has anyone had any experience of this problem? i can't believe the cats would cause extra heat from the headers??
    also, if i fit test pipes, i've heard this will trigger engine check light, any suggestions how can i get around this?
    Stebro have been quick to respond to my concerns but i'm UK based and they're in canada so i dont expectthe replacement parts for a week or so and i'm keen to get the car running again.

    thanks in anticipation,
     
  2. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

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    #2 cf355, Jun 2, 2008
    I think the cause of your heat issues are the addition of the stebro headers.

    I assume they are ceramic coated and do not have the heat shielding like the factory headers have.
    While ceramic coating is a plus it cannot contain the heat like heat shields can so I think the addition of test pipes will not resolve your heat issues.

    The good news is that the stebro headers will likely last (unlike the factory headers). The bad news is that some of your components will likely fail due to radiant heat unless you install heat shields.

    You need to fabricate heat shields around the alternater or it will likely fail.......if you search this site under fabspeed headers you will find photos of such a heat shield.
    Another area to protect is the fuel lines and possibly the oil tank (although there should be a factory shield there now).

    And on a 1999 test pipes should not trigger a check engine light as long as the 3 sensors/ports are there.
     
  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #3 f355spider, Jun 2, 2008
    +1 on what was said. BUT, I believe you will get a CE light, as the second, post cat O2 sensor will likely see and trigger a "low catalytic converter efficiency" warning. The way around that is to run O2 simulators, but I do not know much about that. What you really need to do is leave the cats, and install heatshields on the exhaust manifolds. At the very minimum, you need to protect the alternator, or it will fail promptly from the heat.
     
  4. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

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    #4 UConn Husky, Jun 2, 2008
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  5. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #5 greyboxer, Jun 2, 2008
    Might a challenge grille also assist cooling ?
     
  6. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #6 slickV8, Jun 3, 2008
    All, thanks very much for your opinions and suggestions. i'm guessing that manufacturers claiming lower heat emission from ceramic coated headers is somewhat missguided then!?

    begs the question.....if they claim that their headers reduce engine bay heat and therefore increase power, then surely if the headers actually INCREASE engine bay heat then power must effectively be reduced!?!?!

    at least they'll look nice....until it rains!
     
  7. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 285ferrari, Jun 3, 2008
    It certainly cannot hurt...
     
  8. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 285ferrari, Jun 3, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
    Test pipes WILL result in a CEL on a 99 car unless you get o2 simulators or reflash the ecu after installation. What kind of cats are you using?

    Also you may want to do a search on Stebro---would not surprise me if the headers were the cause of your problems...

    PS----When you can add your 355 info to the registry-- www.ferrari355registry.com
     
  9. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

    Jun 2, 2008
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    #9 slickV8, Jun 3, 2008
    predicatably i'm using stebro cats. i can't see that cats or any other part of the system would affect the heat from the headers so significantly and i've not seen anything that would suggestthe stebro headers themselves could be faulty? - so i'm assuming [for now] that the headers just generate more heat as they are un-wrapped / shielded. I've arragnge for a local guy to fabricate me a heat shield for the alternator and i'll wrap the other lines just to be sure.once the new muffler arrives i'll fit it and update.
    thanks again
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #10 mk e, Jun 3, 2008
    The best thing to do is wrap the headers. I know it's not as pretty to look at as the coated stainless, but it will keep the heat in the exhaust and out of the engine bay as ferrari intended. I paint the wrap after I put it on, to makes it look better and it seems to last much longer too.

    The step would be to fit the factory or similar aluminum covers over the wrap to keep water off as wrapped header will steam a bit if the car sits in the rain.
     
  11. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 285ferrari, Jun 3, 2008
    Most exhaust companies will tell you this is a bad idea for long term use---I have had several say wrapping will damage the headers down the road---For race cars that do not run everyday or only for minutes/hours at a time it is ok... This was discussed recently in the 355 section about headers..
     
  12. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #12 mk e, Jun 3, 2008
    That is part of the reason why the stock headers crack, but it's the only way to keep the engine bay temps under control which is why ferrari did it.

    The mild steel headers fail due to rust when wrapped but SS headers seem fine, at least in my limited experience. It makes a HUGE difference in temperature.
     
  13. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #13 slickV8, Jun 3, 2008
    guys [and girls!?] i've decided on the perfect solution to this seemly endless problem.....trick aftermarket headers seem to create heat issues and neccessitate in additional wrappings, heat shields and lord knows what else for just marginal gains in power output itself negated by the additional weight of the mods to allow the car to run them, so....i've ordered a set of refurbished original headers [exchange units at about $800 in your money] which will give me reliability [they replace the sweeps with 'proper steel'], authenticity and absolutely no heat emission issues...........perfect!.....and i can bolt the high flow cats and muffler straight on and go upset the neighbours.

    so then, anybody not agree that wants to buy a brand new pair of Stebro headers [used only to start the car twice, zero miles] $sensible offers before they hit ebay???

    its been an invaluable experience and thanks all for your input - next week we'll be discussing replacing airbag steering wheels with a spacer [so i can actually reach it and dont spit it through a hedge next time i get a litle out of shape while upsetting the aforementioned neighbours] and proper non airbag one, if you want to do a little advance revising!
    cheers
     
  14. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #14 greyboxer, Jun 3, 2008
    The spacer will come from Hills Engineering and we don't need to revise as you can find out for yourself about steering wheel replacement by using the search function !
     
  15. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #15 ferraridriver, Jun 3, 2008
    Time to set the record straight again (sigh)

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184103

    and see this
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/heatwraps.asp
     
  16. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #16 f355spider, Jun 3, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
    The factory oem 355 exhaust manifolds (made by ANSA) ARE made from 409 SS. The problem seems to be the use of too thin, and low grade stainless steel. The QV London rebuilt units are made from 304 stainless steel and is one gauge thicker.
     
  17. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #17 slickV8, Jun 3, 2008
    safe to say nobody's interested in this lovely pair of stebro's then!??
     
  18. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #18 f355spider, Jun 3, 2008
    So who/what rebuilds are you going with?
     
  19. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #19 slickV8, Jun 3, 2008
    to be honest i couldn't tell you the companies name today, the guy working on my car used to be senior mech at a local ferrari dealer [now set up on his own as ferrari specialist] and he's the one that the suggested that solution. he's waiting on a call back to confirm exchanges are in stock from the company he knows that do them so i'll update you tmrw.
     
  20. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #20 slickV8, Jun 3, 2008
    as a matter of interest, his take on the cracking header issue is that they eventually 'burn out' due to the heat [over time] which causes the failure. in fairness to him he didn't see much benefit in fitting the aftermarket headers from the start.
     
  21. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

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    #21 cavlino, Jun 3, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2008
    I bet you the replacements will be QV London rebuild units, the OP is from the UK after all :)
     
  22. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 285ferrari, Jun 3, 2008
    +1---they have gotten high marks for the stock header rebuilds!!!
     
  23. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 285ferrari, Jun 3, 2008
    You won't find many Stebro loving people around here... Especially when Fabspeed is making awesome aftermarket headers for cheaper with a lifetime warranty...
     
  24. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #24 slickV8, Jun 4, 2008
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  25. slickV8

    slickV8 Rookie

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    #25 slickV8, Jun 4, 2008
    it is indeed QV London doing the refurb work. i'll update once received and fitted.
     
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