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355 FIERO...BONDO AND ALL!!!

Discussion in 'Chicago' started by FerrariFrank1, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran
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    I assure you, Frank Beard could have afforded to buy the real thing; if what he wanted was available.

    Reproductions, not to mean kit cars and replicas, are prevalant in the rare automobile market.

    If built to exact specifications, they are very collectable, very expensive, and very desireable.

    Jan, I won't give the last name, has quite a collection of F-cars, and many other rarities. All are real, except for his 250 TR and his P4, which each cost him well into 6 figures.

    If what you desire for your collection, is not available for purchase, a repro may just have to do. But an 'exact' repro will cost you!
     
  2. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow! My guess is you DID have that second cup at home. Just don't kick your dog, alright?

    DL
     
  3. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Frank, relax, Dave's a cool guy, no need to get overly coffeinated.

    Just for the record my $ 0.02 on replicars: Dave has a good point, that the heart of a Ferrari is its engine. As much as I love these Mc Burnies (and they are obviously good and hit a nerve with Ferrari who banned them for a reason), they obviously do miss the engine. Which is why my ultimate replicar fantasy would be to use the engine and automatic drive train of a rusted/crashed 400i and put it into a Mc Burnie. Dunno how doable that would be, but you would end up with something close to original that actually gives you the heart of the matter as well.

    Anyway, aside from that I have no problem with replicars like the 250 GTOs. Those IMHO are no poseurs as everybody who knows a little bit about cars, realizes they have to be replicars. Who else would take the worlds most expensive car ever (20 Mio US all time record!) on the backstreets of Batavia and park it there for a pizza?

    Also most of us will never see a real 250 GTO driving around anywhere (unless you go to very select events like the reincarnation of the Mille Miglia once a year in Italy). So having had the ladies and their GTOs in my rear view mirrors brought a big smile to my face. I know it is not the real thing, but by golly for a moment I felt like being transferred back in time. For the very same reason I also applaud the shark nose F1 replicar in "Passione". A chance to relieve a time gone by.

    Obviously the same argument can't really be made for the Mc Burnie's as the real Daytonas are around once in a while. Nevertheless I would still like to have one on our drives around town. Just to see it there. Even if the proportions aren't exact.

    Finally I got a pop quiz for you guys: What is the car in the photograph below? I took that several years ago at a FCA event in Chicagoland (I believe it was on Marchetti's summer "palace" outside town). I think there is no such thing as a 250 GTO spider and nobody would dare to cut a real 250 GTO apart, so is this just another damn replicar?
    :)

    And if it is, what the hell was it doing at a FCA event? Well, looking great for starters I would say. *I* loved it and so did probably many others. Catch my drift?
     
  4. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Oh,come on now,Darth...Be nice! I don't have a dog,but I certainly wouldn't kick it if I did. We were just having a little fun with Mr. Pompous dave330gtc after HE started it! (You HAD to have noticed the humor that we had in our replies! He did!) WE,in this thread,were merely stating that WE like " NICE" Replicars,Replica's,Reproductions,whatever. And,have no problem with anybody else who may actually own one. It's our business,and their business. Then,Mr.Smartypants 330GTC,has to butt in and put his .02c in where it wasn't asked for,needed,wanted,ETC... Sure,he's entitled to his opinion,but,THE WAY that he expressed it was,pretty much like this:"You should be ashamed of yourselves! How dare you! You cannot be REAL Ferraristi!" For actually expressing OUR opinion,and saying that we LIKED Replicars.( BTW. We DO own real Ferrari's) But,we should have our FCA memberships revoked,and turn in our Ferrari's to more "deserving" people who don't like Ferrari,or any other "Replicars"! C'mon! he's got to get real. We thought that it was pretty funny,and we tried to keep it Humorous, ("Tongue in Cheek",so to speak.) And not a "Flame job" or vicious.(with the same respect that his post was) Lighten up alittle! Probably,half of this website are non owners. Some might consider a Replica as "The next best thing,until they can get a Real one". Or,possibly someone who might have a Replica. We were just defending them, AND our "Right" to like Replica's without seeing ourselves as Ferrari sellouts who would Bastardize a real Ferrari just for fun or something! I consistantly see older Ferrari's with non-Ferrari engines For Sale in Hemmings,and at Auctions. And,they still get decent prices for them. Right or wrong,there's a market for them. Also,the Replica,Replicar,and "Reproduction" car industry is BIG. From "crappy ones", "home made ones".( at least their Heart is in the right place!) to EXACT nut and bolt Reproductions,part for part. There must be a pretty good demand for them,as they've been around AT LEAST since the early 1960's. Seems to have worked pretty well with the Miami Vice TV show,as it was very popular. (I'm watching it right now,as a matter of fact. Spike TV network.) And,I would more than bet that the guys who own REAL Daytona Spyder's are probably somewhat grateful to that show for assisting in making their cars so popular,and,approx. 2 to 3 TIMES more expensive than a Daytona coupe.( I see Coupes "going for" $119K-$129K. Spyders from $350K-$400K and up ) And why a few have even actually cut up an authentic Daytona coupe to make it into a Spyder. So,whats wrong with a "Nice" Replica? I would say that MOST people who own one,are NOT trying to misreprent the car as "Real". Or themselves as some kind of Millionaire,Billionaire,Philanthropist,Bon Vivant,or International Playboy JUST because they have a Replica!
     
  5. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Hi,there,Andreas. Yes,I had some buddies over last night,and we were looking at FChat,and saw that post from dave330GTC. (I'm sure that he's an O.K.guy,ONLY because he's a FELLOW Ferrari owner. :) ) We were laughing our patoonies off,and I was just going to leave it be. But,my Buds were saying," No,you can't let that guy get away with that!" Mostly,because of HOW he said it,and WHAT he said. NOT because he was expressing his "opinion" in disliking Replica's. So,it was all in fun,and,judging from Dave's replies,I think he saw the humor. Maybe he's just a little miffed because nobody thinks that the 330GTC is important enough to Replicate. (kidding!) But,seriously. I still like Replica's, Reproductions,what have you. And,despite what Dave said,don't see myself as a "Ferrari sellout", SIMPLY because I like Replica's. Do you? And,obviously,many,many other people do,too. I totally agree with you about the GTO's that the Ladies had on our Geneva drive. I mean,how cool was That!? You won't EVER see a "Real" GTO out driving on the street. Anymore than you see "Real" Daytona Spyders out driving around. The guys that own them keep those babies covered,and locked up tight in a garage somewhere. Prohibiting the rest of us from seeing them...unless we go to a Ferrari show,or,Pebble Beach. Just having a little bit of fun. He had it coming! :) I didn't really "feel the need" to explain myself to Dave or Darth. But,as long as my Daughter is not home,I have the computer all to myself! (HeeHeeHee!) So,what the heck. I'm done!!!
     
  6. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Hey. If it will make everyone feel any better. I'll buy Dave330GTC a beer if I ever run into him somewhere. Maybe,I'll shoot over to Indiana to buy some Firecrackers,or Powerball tickets,or something. (once again...Kidding!!!)
     
  7. Bob308GTS

    Bob308GTS Formula 3

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    Frank, time for your medication :)
     
  8. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

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    The 250 GTO spider started as a PF coupe if memory serves. It ran around in aluminum for awhile and looked great like that. I like the car and would be happy to own it. It isn't pretending to be something it isn't since there were never any produced originally. You have to admit it makes the message board a little more interesting when there is some controversy brewing. I enjoy the discussion and as you can see it did not ever become personal and abusive ( I think). Sometimes things do go over my head. I am from Indiana after all. Although I do feel a little bit hurt now since Frank thinks my 330 isn't important enough to replicate.
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Dave, if it makes you feel any better: A friend of mine is looking to buy a 330 GTC. I can only strongly encourage him, but good ones are hard to find and don't come cheap. I love that car btw!

    Interesting comment on the 250 spider. So it is a genuine Ferrari after all? I was curious since you can actually buy replica kits exactly like this nowadays.
     
  10. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

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    Andreas, the GTO spider is a fantastic car and it must have cost a fortune to build. I think I have a few pictures of it before paint. I'll take a look. I am pretty sure Mark Gerisch fabricated the body. Thanks for the 330 comment. It is a very nice driving car. It is very understated and as I have mentioned before you can definitely fly below the radar with this one.
     
  11. lotusboy

    lotusboy Formula Junior

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    Wow that last post was a good one.I myself think the beauty of a Ferrari are the outside lines of the car. I have a friend who has a mcburnie and the car looks beautiful.This guy can by any car he wants and does he owns 4 "real Ferraris",I would have bought the mcburnie in a heart beat if I would have known it was for sale.
     
  12. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Bob,I am CONSTANTLY medicating! Why do you think that I ALWAYS have a Smile on my Face! :) And,try to find Humor in EVERYTHING! Dave,Yes,my friends and I were just kidding around. Your original post was SO SERIOUS,and,as I just mentioned,we MUST find Humor in EVERYTHING! Life is toooo short "to be an old stick in the mud" ,as My 86 year old Granny out in Arizona would say. And,seriously,if you really were offended by anything,I do apologize. We weren't really as offended by your remarks about "Replicars" as we lead on to. (BTW...it turns out that I didn't have nightmares about Replica's after all,and got a good nights sleep. Thanks for asking!) But...wait until I post the pictures of the original car in question,that started this whole thread. EVERYONE that has even the faintest liking for Ferrari WILL BE OFFENDED! .....P.S. Continental Motors has a REALLY NICE Red/Black 1967 330GTC For Sale right now. I saw it in person,and it's very nice. (I LOVE ALL FERRARI'S!) The current ad in this months DuPont Registry lists the car at $79,900.00. But,it has been there awhile... (finders fee greatly appreciated! :) )
     
  13. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Also,it seems that I've seen,periodically,original Ferrari's,especially old 250's,330's,etc... Used as donor platforms to make even more rare "Reproductions" of Ferrari's. Now THAT disturbs me! Personally,I'd rather see a "Replicar" innocently built out of something else,than chopping up an original,older,rarer "every day",Ferrari. Regardless of what model it started out as,or,what it's being "turned into". These older Ferrari's,to me,in my opinion,are still a great car,and as I said,getting rarer every day. Leave them alone! Additionally. IMO,people get just as much satisfaction from seeing a 250 GTO repro.,like what the Ladies have,as the $299,000.00 "Reproduction",thats built from a 330,or,for that matter,a $20,000,000.00 ORIGINAL.(That you really never get to see,anyway.) Am I wrong? If it's whizzing past you on the road. It's probably fair to say that you can't tell the difference. Not unless it's parked with the hood open,anyway. (who really cares! It's not that big of a deal.) At last years Oakbrook show. There were a "REAL" Daytona Spider,and a "MacBurnie Replicar" parked a car away from each other,in the "Spectators Lot". You could not tell the difference from a distance. Not until you got right up close.
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    So Frank, you're not keen on my idea of taking a 400i drivetrain and putting it into a Mc Burnie?
    :)

    Anyway, thanks for the hint about the 330 at Continental. I passed the good news on to my friend, who I'm certain will call them shortly. And being the good pal, that I am I will have to go over there and take a look at that baby. Oh well, if he twists my arm hard enough...
    :)
     
  15. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    >>>I took about 12 pictures of it from every angle.<<<

    OK, OK.....SOOOOOO don't you have one hour photo over there? Let's see this bondo bucket already!!

    DL
     
  16. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Darth,you're right,buddy. I've got to get that camera over to Walgreens. I'll do it now. I have to go out and run some errands,anyway. I was telling Andreas that I am DEFINITELY going to invest in a digital camera soon. As long as my Daughter dragged my rotten old hippie ass into the 21st. Century,and getting a Computer. I suppose that the next step is a Digital Camera. I'm starting to like this new fangled technology stuff! Kind of stimulates the brain! Andreas. Yes,that 330GTC is in the back,Service bay area, over at Continental. (Was the last time I was there,anyway.) It was there at the "Open House" back in May. I believe that it's been there for QUITE a while,if you catch my drift....(Should be able to talk them down,considerably. It's just been taking up space for at LEAST a year! Maybe more.) I'll check my back issues of DuPont registry,AFTER I get back from dropping off the Camera with the Bondo Machine on it,that is! :) To try to see how long that it's been advertised,and price fluctuation,variation,complication,...hey,isn't that an old Soul song from the 70's?
     
  17. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

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    Continental has had that car for some time. That doesn't necessarily mean anything bad though. The price has been lowered $10,000 already. It is a late serial number 330 with the 365 hood. It looks like a nice clean car. I saw it at the fall 2000 Auburn Kruse auction. They claim it sold for $65,000 then but who knows. You can try to get a history on the car by contacting Gerald Roush. He has been very helpful to me in the past. Good luck, those are great cars.
     
  18. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    I agree with you,there. I saw the car at both last years,and this years Oakbrook show. I also saw it at Continental on a couple occassions,too.(I live right by them,and frequently stop by to see whats new and exciting.) It is a very nice looking,very clean car,and I don't understand why its still there,either. I don't know the mileage. And,it's definitely priced fairly. I am looking in this months Hemmings,and there are 2- '67 330GTC's. One is asking $78,500.00.(red/Black)Euro.model.With 56,000KM. The other is also Red/Black. No mileage listed. Asking $86,500.00. Then,there's a '68,23,000 miles,asking $95,000.00 obo. So,the one at Continental really seems like it's priced right. I suppose that they've probably had some low ball offers,and know what the car is worth,and just aren't going to "give it away". So,no hurry to sell. Eventually,someone will make the right offer. O.K.,here I go again...unless...someone wants to buy it,and cut it up,and make a $299K 250GTO out of it! :) (sorry...couldn't resist!)
     
  19. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    Well Frank, Dave and the rest of youse guys,
    I do believe that Dave was merely stating his opinion (which for the larger part, I do agree with) to which he is entitled. I did not take his statements as whining, in fact I thought that they were pretty calmly stated. I also take issue with most replicars, as they tend IMHO, to dilute the memory/image of the legend. If the replicar can be built to be within a reasonably close tolerance of the original, it becomes a respectable achievement. Some replicars are a lot easier and cheaper to produce than others ie: Manta CanAm and Montage, Lister Chevy or Jaguar by Beck, the Jag "D" and "C" types in aluminum, Cobras built in aluminum by AutoKraft (not fiberglass), etc. But these cars are very close (near exact) in chassis, power plant and fine details. Of course the list of unattainable F cars replicated by hand on less monumental F-car chassis with F-car power are more expensive than the other cars mentioned but like them, they can drive, feel, perform and sound very much like the originals.

    At times in the past, I have considered picking up one or another of these, as there are not a lot of McLaren MK6BGT's (Manta CanAm) or Lister Jag's in the world and less for sale.

    When replicars are built in the manner of the above listed models (I'm sure that there are others) they are truly impressive cars and in a way honor the originals.

    I would suspect that none of us would walk up to the owner of a repop Fiero/Ferrari (or the BONDO QUEEN) (8->} and ridicule them, nor harbor any ill will towards them however I do not have room in the garage for one myself.

    I'd rather dance with my lady than get frustrated at the gentleman's club.

    Now, back to the HK and Prozac..........................

    P.S. On the subject of power, on a trip to the left coast, I saw a 670 HP 308GTB with a 308 motor.
     
  20. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    Hey Dave,
    What part of NW Indiana do you live in? I live just across the border in Crete, IL and there are other F-car people in the neighborhood.

    I'll put the guns away now................
     
  21. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

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    Hi, Bill. You're not far from me. I'm in Valparaiso. There are a few of us over here that are interested in the vintage V-12s. I have a friend who has had a Lusso for over 20 years. Thanks for the back-up. I was getting a little nervous about being out on a limb by myself. Being from Indiana, sometimes I don't realize what I am saying. I have seen some nice SWB recreations over the years and they really do honor the originals. How about a nice Zagato bodied Aston replica? I think that one is also a very beautiful car.
     
  22. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    Dave,
    When I was getting ready to buy my F-car, it could have been an A-M or an AC Aceca that caught my fancy. The deciding factors were that I have : a lot more experience in Ferraris, some F-car part sources, and an addiction to the sound of a V-12. Although an A-M hot 6 does sound real nice.
     
  23. bill365

    bill365 F1 Rookie

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    By the way Dave, a bunch of friends and I were, on a recent Sunday, cruising around your neighborhood on, for the most part, vintage Brit bikes, in the rain. I put over 100 miles on my 32 year old bike, the farthest it has ever been driven in a day. It now has 825 miles on it. We had a great time.
     
  24. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

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    Bill, are you familiar with Expert Motorcycle in Hobart? I have had 2 Nortons and a BSA Lightning and they have always been great to deal with for parts and service.
     
  25. FerrariFrank1

    FerrariFrank1 F1 Rookie

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    Hi,Bill! No,my argument was that it sounded as if Dave was telling Me,Andreas,and anyone else,that if we were "Liking" Replicars,then we were not "True" Ferrari guys. And,yes,that kind of did hit a nerve. I agree with you about the Exact Reproduction type Replica's,as being a far superior "being" in the "Replica" field. I see "Replica's" like this: "Home Made" versions,like the 355 Bondo queen. Truly laughable,But...at least the guy has his heart in the right place,no? Then,you have "Replica's" Buy a "Kit" and build it yourself in your own garage with basic tools and knowledge. Still,not quite there,but,heart is still in the right place. Then,you have "Replicars". Built by a company that "specializes" in these. Now,a much better product,still merely a copy. Then,you go to "Reproductions" where you ,basically,build,or,try to build,an exact copy as possible as the original. This,now going into REAL parts,engines,down to the "Correct" nuts and bolts. BUT...No matter how you slice it,it's STILL a replica. NOT an original! Is it REALLY any Better than any of the other types of Replica's? Other than being a hell of a lot more expensive,and using "correct" parts...NO. It's VIN is going to show what it really is. Is THAT guy going to try to pass it off as an "original?". Any more than a guy with a MacBurnie? Now,Dave's original issue,was that a guy with,any one of these,really,could TRY to go out and fool as many people as possible,that it was an original. Even if they did,so what? Who cares? Will it affect me,Dave,you? No. IMO,99% of owners of one of these cars,DO NOT try to "Fool" anybody into trying to think that they own an original. If I had an old '78 'vette sitting around. I'd LOVE to turn it into a Daytona "Replica". And,is there anything wrong with that? I wouldn't try to pass it off as an original. People would really enjoy seeing it out on the road,driving around,seeing as the owners of Real Daytona Spyders NEVER take them out. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't have $350-$400K to buy a Real one,so,that would be a "FUN" car. NO big deal! And,if you take notice in the one post,I was telling Andreas that it was a nice "MacBurnie". NOT a Nice Daytona Replica! I told it as it was. True. Then,Dave says," Saying "a Nice MacBurnie is an oxymoron". No it's not. I said what it was. Not what it wasn't. But,the whole issue is this. Andreas and I,and perhaps a couple of others were saying how much that WE liked Replica's. He didn't have to jump in where he wasn' t wanted and spout off his dislike of the cars. It doesn't matter to me whether Dave likes them or dislikes them. I could really care less! I'm sure that Andreas probably feels the same way. How about if he had a thread going about how much he likes 330GTC's,and someone jumped in and said," 330GTC's SUCK! They look like an old lady's car! I can't believe that Ferrari even wasted their time building such a lame looking car. Why waste your money on that old piece of crap,when you can get a Testarossa,or a Boxer". (even though I personally DO like them. You know how much I like your 365.) Stuff like that. Personally,If I was him,I would have respected our cyber conversation,and,if I didn't agree with the people "talking" in it,I'd have just kept my mouth shut.
     

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