355 Headers - here we go again....

Dave--Any pics? Have they made a set yet?

 

At this point, they have not. We simply have fab quotes and minimum lot sizes. This particular manufacturer is extremely well versed in manifold manufacturing, and does some high-end work in the race world. They are primarily focused on the hot rod market and speed boats.

Believe me, I am the LAST person on earth interested in getting into the manufacturing game. Sadly, I feel like my hand has been forced. It is important to again stress -- these are not about performance, sound, style, shine, or any such claims. Our only objective in this project is to offer a long-lasting manifold that fits right without any compromises.

If nobody is interested, that's perfectly fine with me. Keeping $25k of powder "dry" is an attractive idea too.

 

We already have fabspeed , stebro, (ect) manifolds with the associated heat issues due to no heat shields.

Why doesn't the manufacturer fabricate the 'stronger/improved' manifolds WITH the heat shields already installed.

If there were a company making manifolds this way I would be interested.

p.s. I have a 1995 2.7 model.

 

Seems like a 'deal' compared to the other alternatives out there. The heatshields could be removed and attached by any competent fab shop, but I would imagine the production shop could easily develop something at point of manufacture. I have no customers needing any "yet" unfortunately though David.

cheers, brian

 

I think we need more info (or Hype) before we can determine if this is a feasible endeavor.

1) What is the advantage to price ratio? I think a comparison to having original headers rebuilt by QV would be the benchmark here.

2) Since I am a relative newbie, please forgive me if I missed something, but it seems that the Tubi system gets little mention. I have been drawn to it as it comes with heat shielding and my initial research puts it in the 5-6k range so not much more that what you are saying these non-shielded headers will command.

So the challenge is, show me the advantage. I'm not trying to be a buzz kill here, I'm just a manufacturer in a different field but deal with the same challenges. If you can address these questions you have feasibility!

Just my 0.02

 

So maybe a guy should get into building alternator heat shields?

 

Cool! Bring it on then!

 

I completely support the idea of more alternatives!

But to clarify, QV London has an exchange program, where you can order a set of 355 headers outright, and pay a $900 deposit, which is credited back when they receive your old headers back. You can also send yours in for rebuilding, and wait for them...could easily take two plus weeks, with Fed Ex each way.

 

If I were looking to replace headers, I guess I would be heading towards the Fabspeeds, and then I would coat them with White Lightning by Swain Tech (www.swaintech.com). The coating would be about $380ish, and it is said to be far superior to other ceramic type coatings. I would also make a heat shield for the alternator.

I am just being a devil's advocate here, but why would I buy these headers if the Fabspeeds are essentially the same thing for less? Now if the Fabspeeds are not available, then the story changes. But based on what you have told me, it would be hard for me to spend an extra $1500 or so for a similar piece.

 

Dave---Just my observations.... I think you will be hard pressed to sell a set of unproven headers to guys with no shielding, no coating, no performance data, etc for almost the price of Tubi headers and almost twice the price of Fabspeed headers... I understand you are looking to build a no-nonsense header that will last. But until they are proven they will last or proven they are worth the Tubi money, you may have a difficult time selling them at first...Once they are built will you be able to say-These headers will not fail! Will there be any kind of guarantee? Fabspeed gives a lifetime warranty for failed headers...

Now if these headers are coated and shielded, maybe you can demand that type of money. That shows you have taken steps to reduce potential heat related failures and that would be a step ahead of most aftermarket headers availble right now. But to build unproven, no frills, no shielded, not coated headers for close to $5k....Sorry I don't see many jumping on this bandwagon....

Now if someone were to make a "Heatshield Kit" - Bascially a kit that includes shields for the related components- An entire kit that comes with easily installed shields, tubing, etc. to help reduce heat related problems, no matter what header you buy... Now that would be a "HOT" seller....Anyone who does this--I want a 10% cut for the idea!!!

 

I'm on it!

 

For me the choice is simple. The headers have to have the original type shielding and insulation and have to be in the $4500 range but for that price they must be proven and have to have data to back them up. Otherwise QV of london or Tubi(which are hard to get at times and Ive been told that they are having a warranty issue right now)are the only way to go. They also have to be 4 2 1. Anything less is a waste of time and dollars and may even create more back pressure and cause other issues down the road. Headers are not that expensive to make. It always amazes me how cheap headers can be made for other cars but when it comes to Ferrari and porche....we somehow think the guy making them has a clean white lab coat and a scalpul. IF someone came out and built them with proper SS, 4 2 1 and sheilded as factory, showed the data and had a lifetime warranty for $3500 a set then they would have the market cornered and reap unbelievable sales over the years. Like I said, its not that expensive and even at $3500 they would still be making big bucks. Only problem is, does anyone want to go to the trouble and not mark them up 5 fold?
Getting back to the original poster......At that price, untested and unshielded....I doubt your would be able to sell 3 sets a year.

 

These pesky 355's!

 

Sorry, this post is wrong in many ways. I have made and had made various exhaust systems over the past 30+ years. Certainly in Indianapolis, with a plethora of great fabrication facilities, even a production run of say 20 sets with the set-up of jigs, testing etc., the cost could be in the same range as David suggests (remember this IS a retailing situation also). Many if not MOST systems seen in catalogs for larger markets, Chevy/Ford etc., use inferior materials, adequate for their task at hand but we don't need more of the same but better. The design is not being changed, merely the quality of raw material and thus end product will be improved. Performance will unlikely be affected except by the dependebility/longevity of the product, which is what it was all about from the get go.

PS I have quotes from a couple of shops for custom headers for race cars and street cars of up to $1000 per hole!!

 

It's all about volume. Back when I was in the business, we could afford to sell headers to some cars for less than $500 because we were making 200+ sets at a time. A little different when selling 2-3 sets of F355 manifolds a month. The grass is always greener, if it was as profitable as some imagine it was I would have stayed in it.

However I do agree with you, an F355 4-2-1 manifold with heatshields at $3,500 would sell like hotcakes. I now challenge you to go out there and try to do that without losing money, the only way to even make that a profitable endeavor would be to outsource it to China where you have no Quality Control/Manufacturer support

 

They should be sheilded ........ but the 4-2-1 feature is a good start.

When I get around to making a custom set for my 355 ..... they will definately have some form of metallic heat sheilding, similar to the factory manifolds.

 

Lots of talk about 4-2-1 over 4-1 in terms of torque/HP, but whats the real difference in numbers or percentages?

Are we talking significant gains/losses?

I have a 321SS 4-1 setup but with a better merge collector than Fabspeed and can't really tell any difference from stock.

 

I can only relate that the guys at Competizione told me the Fabspeeds dyno'd essentially the same as stock. So until I saw numbers, I would have to assume that there was no benefit. In theory a 4-2-1 would let you tune the every other pulses in the pairs, and then tune the main collector for the sequential pulses. But to get the design right, it would be quite a bit of research.

If you look back at some other posts, Gruppe M is working on a header system to make more power, but they are using longer primaries and it forces the removal of the cats. This is not going to be a "standard" for replacement, but a specialty item for the guy that has to eek out every last hp.

If you are doing a replacement set of headers, you are looking for more longevity, stock flow, and stock heat management, at a decent price. Take a look at Swain Tech. It may be a cost affective way to handle the heat. It is much different product than the standard "ceramic" coating.

 

Fixed