David, as usual, you guys are on the ball. All I ask is that you get everything settled down before my stockers finally go
I don't know why everybody complains about the factory headers. I changed my headers last year for the first time at 31,000. There was small holes in both sides. After reading all the fuss about after market headers I'm glad I went with factory ones they lasted for 31k miles and hopefully they will go for another 30k miles. Although I paid a stiff price I still think that they are superior then aftermarket ones.
Personally, I don't consider 31,000 miles to be anything to brag about with header life. On a well tuned engine in a car where corrosion is adequately prevented, headers should last forever. I think that is why people complain about them.
Ok, call me niave when it comes to manufacturing/engineering.... but exactly WHY are headers for the 355 so hard to make that they cost $4000 custom or $10,000 factory? Seriously, is it because of volume of production (i.e. the tooling necessary to create the headers versus potential sales)? Or is there something complex about the headers? Or is it because of simple profit motive (factory cost $10,000 therefore 50% off is great for purchasers and I make out like a bandit). I just looked up "Hooker Headers", a famous name in American V-8s. Now, I have no experience with them other than the name recognition and seeing them on a Vette a friend had. But Hooker Headers for American V-8s are between $200 and $400. I'm not trying to "be funny", I'm being serious, why are they so expensive for the Ferrari 3.5 L V8 in the 355? Has anyone tried to contact Hooker for thier estimate in making headers for the 355 (oh, and NOT telling them how much they cost from the factory)? James in Denver
First off, they are not stainless let along GOOD stainless. Second, they are very simple design, ie no sampling ports etc as on the Fcar third, they are very mass produced and have been for many years to cater to the hundreds of thousand possible applications over the past 50 years. Incidentally the 'tooling' is minimal,to take a close look at a set. You can order some from Summit then send them back then tell us how they compare. I am sure that if you wanted to spend time and a LOT of money, there are options which could be used and on a say 1000 set run the price could be affordable for you. Just pony up a few hundred grand sit back and wait for them to bring in the $$. Easy.......
+1 ...... 'v-8 headers' have thin stamped mass produced flanges, are cnc wire welded, mass produced cnc bends, crappy collectors and inferior materials ........ vs a good set of f-car headers have better materials, hand TIG welded, hand cut and fit together (time consuming) and very low production volume .......... just like the cars they go on ......
I’ve made more than a few header systems for race cars and while I might be tempted to makes a set for myself if I didn’t already have one, there’s no way I would do a set for a 355 for $4,000, not even close. To do it properly, all primaries the proper and same length, secondary tubes the same, and to get it all to fit is a very daunting task. Just the collectors are several hundred alone. The cost of material must be close to a grand, I’ll bet the flanges are at least $100. I’ve got boxes and boxes of leftover sections of U and J bends both 304 and 321 to remind me just how hard it really is. For more information and insight on headers check out http://www.burnsstainless.com/
+1 ............ well said ............. it takes a person who has fabbed a quality exhaust/header by hand ......... (same as they are done for race engines) ......... to know what cost, time and effort is involved to get a quality result ........ ........... anyone who thinks it is quick, easy and inexpensive has only talked or typed about it .......
The price of ferrari manifolds are so high just because it is for a Ferrari. We are just talking about some stainless tubing, a jig, pipe bender and a tig welder here. Sure there are tooling costs here but once you duplicate the factory design there is no more R&D costs. Make them in volume at a reasonable price and many owners will buy them even if their factory manifolds are still intact. Currently I would only consider a Tubi manifold due to the heat shielding. Theres no point 'frying' the engine compartment with unshielded headers ( alternater & brake line & oil cannister heat shields & ceramic coatings are only a band aid solution) . I know I would buy a set of aftermarket shielded manifolds now even though my factory units are still ok if the price were right. p.s. I also tig weld and know how much effort there is to fabricate one off parts......the key is volume here.
+1 ........... the 'high cost' has been known for some time now ........... and we usually get the "they shouldn't cost more than regular v8 headers" argument from someone .......... ............. heck even high-end 4 cylinder Honda headers sell for almost $2k ....... when they are made by hand with good materials and they are not even sheilded ...................... so multiply that by 2 banks and you have 'unsheilded' manifolds that cost almost $4k for an f-car v8 ............ I have made custom exhausts for personal/friends cars for some time now and hand fitting/welding tubes is time comsuming if you want a good result. In addition stainless has a higher thermal coefficient of expansion than mild steel. So one has to be careful not to lose alignments when welding bends together as the material thickness varies when mandrel bent. The material is always thicker on the inside of the bends than the outside, hence a different expansion rate ....... but of course one already knows that, since apparently a few people here have made/welded their own exhaust systems together. So to those who say a good quality SS header should be quick, cheap and easy to make .......... should make us all some sheilded 4-2-1 headers for $3000 a set (10x more than standard v-8 headers)!!! Because they must have hand made lots of quality SS headers by their extensive 'first hand experience talk' and apparently know something current exhaust builders don't ............
Define reasonable and I'll tell you what corners you have to cut, the more reasonable, the more inferior. Volume cuts down on costs of materials and it also opens the idea of outsourcing the labor to other countries which is where the big savings come from, but in order to do that you're talking 50+ sets at a time.
As promised, some pictures of their work. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
+1 I have no personal experience on building headers, I have purchased cheap headers before, and I've purchased well made headers before for race applications, quality is seldom cheap.
I've got a set of used stainless 4-2-1 merge collector headers for a chevy v-8 project I'm working on for myself. Even being a dealer for the brand, these headers would have cost me $3500.00 if I bought them new. That is for a chevy v-8!!! No, quality doesn't come cheap. Not to mention 4-2-1 headers are dyno tuned to each engine design broaden the torque curve of the engine, as I'm sure Ferrari has done with their design. So I personally think the price for these high quality, factory style headers is very fair. The shielding is a minor point, I'll be working on a complete under hood set up soon, David!
Go get em big guy!!!!! WTF are you talking about these headers can be welded at any muffler shop..... Did you forget???? Image Unavailable, Please Login
