355 Horrible vibration | FerrariChat

355 Horrible vibration

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by tonyyoshi, Jan 24, 2005.

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  1. tonyyoshi

    tonyyoshi Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
    308
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Tony Brooker
    I've got a 97 Manual 355 Berlinetta and after I took it in for a service a week ago, it had a horrible vibration coming thru the steering wheel, clutch and gear shift. It got even worse about 4krpm especially in the clutch pedal. But not in the accelerator. I took it back, they took it apart and said the clutch bearing was loose which they replaced. They also said the clutch was badly worn and I should replace it, which I did. Just picked it up today and the mechanic said the vibration it totally fixed. Admittedly there was no vibration until 5 mins after I picked it up. Exactly the same as before.

    Does anyone have any ideas? I've done a full engine diagnostic check, and there are no errors. Here's the stats:

    Revs = 1050
    Injection time (Tj) - Left cyl bank = 3.0 ms
    Injection time (Tj) - Right cyl bank = 3.2 ms
    Load (TL) = 1.5 ms
    Ignition advance = 0.0 degree
    Absolute throttle angle = -0.8%
    Relative throttle angle = 0.0%
    Offset Throttle angle = -0.8%

    Does anyone have any ideas/previous experience with this happening to them? Is the timing off? The car is pretty quiet at full blat... It had also been used VERY infrequently by the last owner, 4 times in 8 months....

    Oh, and they fitted 8 new NGK PMR70A spark plugs too. Could it be the spark plug wires?

    Thanks

    Tony
     
  2. FL 355

    FL 355 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2002
    1,665
    Ft Laud
    Full Name:
    Frank Lipinski
    First let me ask you this. At 4K rpm during vibration... what happens if you put it in neutral and let her coast? Vibration? This will help determine if it's in the engine or running gear...
     
  3. tonyyoshi

    tonyyoshi Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
    308
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Tony Brooker
    Vibration. Someone emailed and suggested it might be a broken engine mount... any easy way i can check this?
     
  4. FL 355

    FL 355 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2002
    1,665
    Ft Laud
    Full Name:
    Frank Lipinski
    Take it to a qualified mechanic (not where you went) and have it inspected on a lift. Most shops will inspect it for free and tell you if the mount is broken. Or go back to the 1st guy and get your money back.

    Could be a mount, more vibration under load, etc.

    BTW - I'm surprised this guy went right to your throw out bearing. Usually, an early sign of it going bad is when you turn off the car in neutral, there is a shudder right after shut down. If you do the same thing, but shut it off with it in gear with the clutch depressed and don't hear the shutter. That's usually the symptoms for a throw out.
     
  5. tonyyoshi

    tonyyoshi Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
    308
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Tony Brooker
    Or it could be the ignition problem as seomone has just suggested to me...
     
  6. fazzaz1

    fazzaz1 Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    89
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Sam Scott
    Could be a wheel bearing. Cut the engine off and put it in neutral. If you still feel it look at the wheel bearings. I had that happen in my 98. good luck.
     
  7. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,071
    Pocono Sportscar
    Full Name:
    Jim McGee
    Question:

    Was the Flywheel serviced recently?


    Regards, Jim
     
  8. tonyyoshi

    tonyyoshi Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
    308
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Tony Brooker
    Well the clutch was changed so I guess they serviced everything in there.
     
  9. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,071
    Pocono Sportscar
    Full Name:
    Jim McGee
    I ask because if it was, It may be the problem of the vibration if not serviced correctly.

    The flywheel is self balancing with weights inside suspended in grease. If it was serviced and repacked with grease, it may just need time to balance itself, but if the vibration continues, there may be an internal problem with the flywheel.

    best regards, Jim
     
  10. tonyyoshi

    tonyyoshi Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
    308
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Tony Brooker
    They're convinced it's the engine mount. It's going in to have it all checked in a week's time so i'll find out then.
     
  11. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,071
    Pocono Sportscar
    Full Name:
    Jim McGee
    good luck

    regards, jim
     
  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,620
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    There are two mounting points for the engine. Since the 355 subframe is almost the same as the 348, the motor mounts should be in the same place. You can actually see them from behind the car looking up underneith. They are located just under the exhaust headers. You will see a bracket coming off of the subframe were the bottom of the engine mount gets bolted to. There is one very big bolt holding the mounts to the subframe, and then there will be a triangle shape attatched to the bottom sides of the engine, with three bolts holding it in place. It also could be that the main bolt that is holding it the subframe has come loose. But that is very unlikely, unless someone was fooling around with the nut. I don't know but these guys seem like they don't know what they are doing. That or they are trying to rip you off. It is very easy to loosen the motor mount bolt that attatches to the subframe. They could have done this and then try to charge you for a new motor mounts, plus labor. Then all they would do is just retighten it, and make some easy money. Now I hope that I am totally wrong in saying that. You can check yourself if the motor mount is truley broken. Have someone rev the egnie while you are looking at the engine mounts. If they are broken you will see the crack when the engine is rev'd. If it is loose you will see the motor mount move up and down on the subframe. If it is indeed cracked then you can have it changed. If it is loose then tighten it up.
     
  13. tonyyoshi

    tonyyoshi Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2005
    308
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Tony Brooker
    That's good advice thanks. They are trying desperately hard to redeem themselves given the bollocking Ferrari gave them so I'd be very surprised if they screw anything up. Regarding trying to rip me off, I genuinely don't believe they do this at all. I think it's just incompetence. They're not the best but they're also not crooks.
     
  14. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    Excuse my cynicism but....with cars of this value, isn't incompetance almost the same as theft?


    Tom (card-carrying curmudgeon) :)
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    So was it a motor mount problem after all?
     
  16. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    He hasnt posted in a year and a half, probably not on here anymore. But the fact the mechanic got the vibe to go away by working on the clutch would seem to point to a clutch issue somewhere wouldnt it?
     
  17. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,879
    Agree with Paul.. This is not an engine mount issue. I have started 6 and 8 and 12 cylinder Ferrari engines on the floor or on a stand, and you could balance a nickle on the engine while running. They are dead smooth, without a hint of vibration, without being bolted to anything. A bad engine mount won't make the engine vibrate.

    Jim S.
     

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