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355 lack of HP

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by petrone01, Mar 25, 2006.

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  1. petrone01

    petrone01 Karting

    Oct 17, 2005
    100
    Concord, CA
    Full Name:
    Carmine
    #1 petrone01, Mar 25, 2006
    I have a 99 355 F1 (32,000 mi) car that I have been trying to trace a lack of HP issue for some time. We are talking about a 20% lack of HP! It finally came due for a smog and failed.

    Here is what I have done to date.
    30K service at 26K miles
    pulled out the cats (look good) - anybody want them, putting in hyperflow
    tested fuel pressure
    replaced plug wires and plugs
    replaced coils
    replaced air filters
    did a major on the F1 with clutch etc at 26K miles
    Tubis
    Gruppe M intakes
    Compression test - good at 185psi

    NOW. The car is at FOSV service and for two days they had no good answers other than it may be needing to drop the engine and check timing. They also discovered bad engine mounts and other issues. Now I purchased the car with the above 30k service on record as having been done by WC facility and I have the docs to prove it.

    I am looking at $13K which includes putting in the Hyperflow cats and get rid of those crappy stock cats. My fear is A) This is way too much, B) What if I am still lacking HP, more cash?

    They have already put $1K worth of effort if I say no, let me go home. So then I still have this problem, probably since I've owned the car but never really noticed until I raced a 355 buddy of mine.

    I finally got FOSF (who I purchased the car from) to get the docs from the previous owner. What I found is that about 150 before I purchased the car he had made a complaint about loss of power. They replaced the cats for him, air injector leak, and air temp control system check. What I don't know is if they fixed the problem.

    My guess is that he gave up if they suggested to him to pull the motor, and said sell it. Now I have it, and it has been getting worse since I have had it ( about 2 years).

    Not sure what the hell I should do, or trust anymore with this car. I have taken it to three shops that gave me no answers, less money in my pocket, and still have the same problem.. FOSV was the only one to say that they are 99.9% sure that the timing belts are loose.. need to pull the engine out!!!

    Any suggestions other than smart comments, like get a new car. I like my car, it's clean, and paid for. Plus I can't sell it in this condition. Then I also have a fear of driving it further and causing more damage.
     
  2. nizam

    nizam Formula 3
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    #2 nizam, Mar 25, 2006
    Sorry to hear about your dilemma, Petrone1. When I was researching the purchase of my F355, I consulted this board, spoke with some owners and spoke with a few regarded F-car mechanics.

    During a major, it is imperative that all the cams are set right, with degree wheels on just about every cam pulley to ensure nothing is mistimed. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that sometime in your car's past, the cams were set slightly off during a major. It's not uncommon, apparently, that these instances of mistimed 355 motors have caused them to not behave as they should. Some idle rough, and some have odd flat spots, and others are just plain dogs (I came across one such example at an auction clearing house in Newport during my search and immediately passed on the deal even though it had 'papers'.)

    Since you have replaced everything external and got nowhere, and you didn't say you had a check engine light, it might be time to pull the motor :(.

    If I were in your shoes, and I liked the car enough, I'd go ahead and do it. A properly running one is very rewarding to drive :)
     
  3. petrone01

    petrone01 Karting

    Oct 17, 2005
    100
    Concord, CA
    Full Name:
    Carmine
    #3 petrone01, Mar 25, 2006
    Amazing that even if you have papers, it does not guarantee correct service. One great thing about going through this... The guys at FOSV are letting me hang out and watch the process, take pictures of before and after to ensure they are doing it correctly. I mean, I could sell it, buy another and have more bad info on purchase and still go through the headache. I think anyone that goes though this pain, gets familar with their car and a feel for her... it is worth keeping it for a while. As temping as picking up a 360, it is not as tempting to go though the relationship pain. WOW, this is just like being married to another woman..... But your comment was important, that the timing can be associated with my lack of HP and it is not uncommon for it to have not been done correctly.

    I will keep this link open with pics of the work, and the outcome. Hopefully it will help future buyer of any of these cars.

    Carmine
     
  4. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
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    #4 BT, Mar 25, 2006
    Contact Brian Crall (Rifledriver). He is the expert and is in California (don't know if it is close to you). He is an expert and honest Ferrari mechanic. You should be able to get the engine pulled and the timing / cam alignment set for around $5-6k. I think the dealers quote of $13k is way high. Hyperflow cats should run less than $2k. Good luck!
    :)
    BT
     
  5. petrone01

    petrone01 Karting

    Oct 17, 2005
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    Concord, CA
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    Carmine
    #5 petrone01, Mar 25, 2006
    The 30K was about 8K and I am having them do a few more things while the engine is out. Hyperflow are about 2290 just for the parts. Where did you see less than 2K? I have e-mailed Brian.. Yes I am close to him.

    Carmine
     
  6. RossoCorsaItaly

    RossoCorsaItaly F1 Rookie
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    #6 RossoCorsaItaly, Mar 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If FOSV is 99.9% sure it's your timing belts, I hope that fixes your problem. I would go ahead and try with it. Afterwards if you feel the car still isn't meeting your expectations aftermarket manifolds are a great way to increase HP. With the GruppeM intake, hyperflow cats, and a set of manifolds your performance shouldn't be far off from a 360.

    Either way sorry about you problem and I hope everything works out for you.

    Attached is a dyno from Lusso64's F355 we did some manifolds on. Blue line is our manifolds, red line is factory.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
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    #7 Admiral Thrawn, Mar 25, 2006
    Sounds like an engine out and full inspection is the way to go.

    $13k is nuts if they're not actually replacing anything...
     
  8. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #8 ferrarifixer, Mar 25, 2006
    You can check the cam timing without removing the engine, although if it is wrong you cannot adjust it of course.
     
  9. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 tbakowsky, Mar 25, 2006
    I doubt cam timing is the issue here, only because you said the problem seems to be getting worse..I would be checking fuel managment before pulling the enigne. A cam timing issue would not get gradualy worse, it would just stay the same, or go "bang";) I would also check to make sure the paint on the inside of the airboxes is not flaking off and hanging up in the air flow meter. I have seen that a couple of times, which caused a feeling of horsepower loss as you have descibed.
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #10 Rifledriver, Mar 26, 2006
    You cannot diagnose anything with the engine out.

    Step A Figure out what is wrong.
    Step B Fix it.


    Any other method is stupid, dishonest, incompetent or a combination thereof.

    If the work was done at a location in WC PM me who it is and I can give you some insight.


    As Phil said, a timing issue is easily diagnosed in the car.
     
  11. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

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    #11 teak360, Mar 26, 2006
    Where's the excess profit in that?
     
  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 ernie, Mar 26, 2006
    Words of wizdom.
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 ernie, Mar 26, 2006
    On that note when was the last time that the fuel filters were changed? Clogged filters can cause the car to run sluggish.
     
  14. Sloan83qv

    Sloan83qv F1 Rookie
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    #14 Sloan83qv, Mar 26, 2006
    $13,000....You actually are looking at getting taken to the cleaner.....

    Rifledrivers statement is dead on!
     
  15. Andi355

    Andi355 Formula Junior
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    Sep 26, 2005
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    #15 Andi355, Mar 27, 2006
    Hi petrone01,

    How many hp did you measure ?
    You only said that there is a lack of 20%, that means 75 hp.

    There is no stock F355 that reaches 375hp. Most challenge cars
    'only' had 380 hp only some were optimized to 410hp.
    Most of the 1995 ( 2.7 ECU ) cars reach about 350 to 360 hp.
    In 1996 Ferrari changed - because of the emission and noise - the intake system and to a 5.2 ECU. The car was detuned.
    Ferrari promised to change something at the motor management/timing to
    reduce the lack of power. Nothing hapened or it doesn't work.
    The result is that most of the cars between 1996 and 2000 reach
    only 320 to 340 hp.
    It seems that you have such a car.

    With a tubi, hyperflow, GruppeM, changed intake system and Kevin headers
    there should be +40hp be possible.

    Good luch

    Andi
     
  16. leang86

    leang86 F1 Rookie

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    #16 leang86, Mar 27, 2006

    When was the last cam and timming belts replace?
     
  17. petrone01

    petrone01 Karting

    Oct 17, 2005
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    Concord, CA
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    Carmine
    #17 petrone01, Mar 30, 2006
    Thanks for some constructive information:

    The timing belts and 30K service was done around 26K miles.

    13K is nuts, but when I break it down it is not just another 30K that I am getting done but some other misc stuff while the engine is out.. too long a list. But this was a "not to exceed", and I guess cover their A S _ quote. It appears that it will come a couple of Ks less.. going down tomorrow to go through a more detail cost and pricing detail.. will let you know.

    I will contact Rifledriver on a PM. Might be better to talk on the phone and save carpaltunnel.

    They said that the timing was the cause. But like all mechanics, no one gives 100% guarantee, and that is just in case 00.1% that they are wrong.

    I compared the acceleration with my buddy's 355 and there was a HUGEW difference in stepping on the gas... I mean the difference between a honda accord and a porche boxer... it was not measured, but let me tell you it BOGGS.

    C
     
  18. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #18 bpu699, Mar 30, 2006
    :) Not to ruin a good analogy here (Or is it a similie?)...but an accord could likely outrun a boxster... Some accords are pushing 250HP in stock form...much more than an early boxster... :) My sisters Accord is damn quick...

    Good luck with the car!
     

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