Guys, In order to separate the wheat from the chaff - before a proper (and also expensive) PPI - I started on a questionaire. What do you all think? Any additions? 1) Date of last belt change/engine out service? 2) Number of previous owners? 3) Books present? 4) All keys (and remotes if 96 or later) present? 5) Tools present? 6) Original car cover (and steering wheel / seat covers) present? 7) Is there an FNA record of the valve guides being changed? 8) How complete are the existant service records? 9) Any open service issues, deferred service, or owner declined repairs? 10) Any known current or previous body damage or paintwork? 11) What are the condition of the headers and catalysts? 12) Any emissions related issues (fault codes set or readiness codes not set?) 13) Condition of the plastic in the interior? Any melting or softness? 14) Condition of the air conditioning panel? Any bubbles? 15) Condition of the leather in the interior? Any shrinkage or wear? 16) Has the engine been given a recent compression and leakdown test - if so, what were the results.
6) Original car cover (and seat covers) present? Don't forget there's also a steering wheel cover too.
Very cool idea! I will link to this thread from now on when people post up "what do I look for when purchasing a 355..."
Good list! If you're looking for a Berlinetta, also look for paint spidering where the roof meets the rear fenders. BTW, they are all going to do it sooner or later, but it's a bargaining chip... I assume that your PPI includes dash shrinkage, seat bolsters and door sills. I also check to see if it's a USA car. Be sure to distinguish between headers and mufflers. The problem area is the headers, but most owners replace the muffler... lots of Tubi mufflers, but very few Tubi headers!
3 to add: Dash - Has there been any previous shrinkage and has anything been replaced due to this shrinkage, specifically non-stock colors or non-stock materials? Has the car had any problems with the suspension adjusters (red connections over the shocks in the engine bay) and if so, has this been corrected? (someone please respond and tell me what these are, FoD said they are known to fail once-in-a-while) Do the CEL lights actually work (ie. not burnt out or disconnected)? James in Denver
Excellent one to add, I just realized during an emissions inspection that my CEL didn't come on during startup. Took the gauge console apart, sure enough it's not even there!
Very important. It is also very dependant on who did it. If the "belts" have not been done, it is also a huge bargaining chip. Semi important, less owners can possibly mean more care, but not always. Try to find the previous owners names and run them through the MTV database to see if they have ever been the backup drummer for Twisted Sister. More important than you may think, look at prices on ebay. Staggeringly expensive. Have them sent to you seperately from the car to avoid having the car hauler present his old lady with a "New Leather Cigarette Carton Case" 96 doesnt count. See above regarding books. If it is a spider, there is a seperate tool kit to make the top go up and down. Gloves are included just to give the 348 guys something to tease about. Car cover, very nice. Other covers useless, but useful at resale time. It has taken me 2 cases of fancy beer, a warning from OSHA for sending alcohol through UPS, permission from 2 previous owners, and I still have not gotten this info from Ferrrai of XXXXXX. This is alway good for convincing yourself that it was a good thing you didnt buy one in 1995. The prices are substantial, but the headers have been replaced several times on many cars. Just because some things have been changed, does not mean they dont need it again. A curiousity maybe. I think the front end will have been repapinted on any F355, perhaps even the rear bumper, with no vicious causation. You can probably never know without looking inside. MIL = red flag on any car. Unless the stuff is brand new, it will be deteriorated. And there is lots of stuff to deteriorate. Can be fixed, make them fix it, you may want to avoid some of the aftermarket solutions. Most drivers seats will be deteriorated, unless driven by a very agile Male Dancer (quit snickering 348 guys) because it is pretty difficult to egress gracefully. Hypercritical, although I have been wondering if removing the plenums and actually peeking down the throttles and seeing the back of the intake valves would be even more cost effective. Reasons for JimC to buy a 360: Cool airflow meters, more fun to work on than crappy old Bosch Film stuff. Greater potential sales, competition all talk and no dyno. Variable cam timing to exploit. In-car belt and -tensioner- service. reasons to buy F355 Looks like a Ferrari that you earned for yourself as opposed to Dadstrustfund. Sounds cool. Just plain old drives good. 95 obd1 is a Motronic Playground. Jay Morris
Wow.. This is a serious list guys, sounds like the spanish inquisition! Just a small note about being careful. If your too particular about buying quite frankly what is a decade or older car you may never find one! Be a little bit realistic about whats possible otherwise you'll never be happy, even if the cars a good one. My 2002 360 Modena would probably fail on some of these questios and its absolutely MINT. Dont forget to enjoy it regardless of if it doesnt have a seat cover or tool bag
Easy to run a carfax or autocheck title search. Avoid marred titles, duplicate titles, salvage titles, rebuilt titles, odometer rollback, etc. Also, carfax/autocheck will show each time the car has had its car tag renewed. A 355 without a current cartag in the correct state in which it is being sold is a big, red, flag-waving keep-away sign as you could be on the hook for a previous owner's back-taxes for tag, title, license, and sales taxes...not insignificant if more than one year/transaction is involved. I'd say that a 355 with no obvious prior body damage, either the exhaust headers or valve guides correctly replaced, and clear title would be worth going the extra step of compression check on the motor. If it passes, buy it!
Well, let me give you some background as to most of those questions. A few I got from talking to some of the "real" techs on the board. Others from some from other members. The original list was actually quite short. Then I noticed I was wasting time with cars that were priced about 10% above "perfect, low-miles, red/tan" and were no where near that. In short, they were s h * t cars. Examples - OBD 355's with codes that could not be vanquished - that means you cannot register that vehicle in any state that is emissions tested via the OBD plug-in. Cars with low compression and high leakdown. Some were 99's - thereby squashing the "rumor" about how great the later steel valve guides are. Cars that should have had comp/leakdn. tested but didn't. Yet the owners said "Oh, the valve guides are fine" (really, how do you know!) Cars that had simple problems that the P/O's simply disregarded or "declined repair" when noticed by a dealer tech. What does that tell you about the car? (note that in all cases, it wasn't just one flaw - it was many that would have easily been red-flagged by this questionaire) This questionaire was designed to qualify (and/or disqualify) a car from further consideration. PPI's cost money - this questionaire will rule out that expenditure where not warranted. So far, it's done so very very well. Know that a car will eventually sell to SOMEONE, just better off you if you didn't do due dilligence. Jim
Assuredly - My step has been to: 1) Get VIN, run Carfax. 2) Get owner/dealer answers to questionaire 3) If good, get PPI compression/leakdown. 4) Buy car So far I have gotteh to step 1 or 2 a bunch of times Step #3 a few times, and step #4 not once Jim
CT is emissions tested via plug in, but you can still register if you fail (I should know, I did). Honestly I'm not clear on the resolution - I am fully registered with plates and that's what counts. I have 30 days to fix and retest; if the retest fails I think you need to show you did $xxx worth of work yet it still fails. I think basically the state wants you to pass, but won't require you to trash the car or spend a ton of money to fix it. We'll see...
That is one way it should never come on-- I need to check mine I guess also. Does it supposed to come on during startup? I can't remember if I have ever seen mine either...
If you follow all these suggestions....you will never own a Ferrari period. You won't find any car made by anyone in the 90s that is perfect. If some of you are just making excuses for not buying one then you never intended to get one in the first place. Yes its nice to have some sort of guidelines to follow but as one member said earlier, you must know what to expect and be ready to remedy some of these things yourself. If you are looking for excuses to get the price lower......well a 355 will only go for so little infact prices have stabilized and may be heading the other way.
it's right in the center at the bottom; turn the key to 'on' before starting, should light up then turn off. Hey while checking does your sport mode light turn on during startup also? ok sorry for the thread hijack...I agree with 355, if you wait for a car where absolutely everything is in order it may be a long, long time. I vote for making sure the 'big' stuff is ok (valve guides and headers as FBB said). No tools or covers? oh well. Sticky interior? fix it. etc...
For spiders: Any problems with the top? Has the seat potentometer (sp?) been repaired/replaced? For F1s: Has the gear indicator display been replaced/repaired? Theo
I agree that a 355 will most likely never check off on all of those conditions but they will be a negotiating point on the price
If CT allows you to register if you've failed the plug-in, essentially granting you an emissions waiver, that's VERY liberal. In UT, and specifically in Salt Lake County: (emphasis added) So, no pass, no register. BTW, this question in the list came about as some owners swap cats for aftermarket (read: c r * p) catalysts which fail the OBD catalyst efficiency tests. Then they sell the stock cats, leaving the next owner with no choice but to pony up approximately $3800 to replace the OEM cats. Of course, add to that the fact the same car had: Marginal compression and leakdown, Leaking seals Leaking brake hoses a bad water valve for the heater (and the beat goes on..)
Bingo! More importantly though - by ASKING all these questions, and KNOWING the answers you know what you need to do to your car, and approx. how much it will cost in the future. (Not knowing can be a $5 or a $35,000 mistake) Knowing that the previous owner deferred or "declined" some needed repair in the past certainly does make you wonder what ELSE was neglected. In every case I've seen to date, any mechanical (not cosmetic) repair declined by a previous owner was indicative of many other mechanical issues lurking "just under the surface"
If this thread becomes useful, here is another one of the million bits of Ferrari trivia: F355 sport suspension is "light on = soft suspension" 355F1 sport suspension is "light on = sport suspension" Potential buyers? Get used to stuff like this. It is part of the charm. Like a girl with Fanalones except ones a little crooked. JM
This is a great thread--lots of good stuff for us potential buyers! Two quick questions: What is MIL (I know I've heard that somewhere else, but I can't remember what it stands for), and what are the CEL lights? Thanks!
