Hey guys, My prospective car ('97 355) is in the shop getting the PPI done. Problem: cracked exhaust manifold on the left side. Pretty common. I did the search and found the threads...so I'll make sure it's not replaced w/OEM and I'll likely go with the QV. Here's the big question: the mechanic test drove it and reported that when he "pushed it"...smoke came from the left side. The mechanic figures (rightfully so) that it's related to the left-side cracked manifold. He says we'll have to replace the manifold and re-test it. My question/thought is this: If the smoke goes away, can we safely conclude it was just the exhaust manifold at fault and it's safe to buy...OR can valve-guide damage have occurred and the future of the engine uncertain enough to taint this cars future???? Should I be running??????? They also told me the belt-service was done...but turns out there's no documentation or evidence (as inspected from below) of the engine having been R&R'd. The seller is having his buddy sell the car for him. Either they're dumb or playing dumb. I'm putting me runnign shoes on........
lol Steve, This affords you an excellent opportunity to lowball the **** out of the seller. Knock off about 10-15 grand if you really like the car.
I'm gone.... My buddy Dave (Darth550) was just down there. They warmed it up, revved it up and the thing smokes like a bastard. Today's cylinder pressure test shows one cylinder running really low. The mechanic called it "dead holed" or something like that. The engine is F-d. I'm pissed AND I'm glad... I'm pissed that I wasted $350 for a car that was misrepresented to me as being something it wasn't... I'm glad I didn't spend the $95k and then discovered this Next car please.......
My last post was about a minute late I guess. Well, maybe now you can knock off about 20-30 grand. Good job investigating. Don't worry about the $350... you were real smart on this one.
I hate to tell you I told you so Steve..but you get what you pay for!!!!!!! By the way..my 355 spider is at a new home today. My car is SOLD !!!! Good luck. Mario
yes, yes....$350 well spent But what about the real cost of this whole situation. I had cleared my garage and mentally had a complete picture of driving THAT 355 home to be mine. Cost to drive out and see the car $50 (includes lunch w/buddy) Cost of having the PPI done $350 Potential money/nightmare saved $25,000 Shattered dream of bringing her home: PRICELESS I should sue for malicious and frivilous waste of my time. This is exactly the kind of thing that can lead to erectal dysfunction!!!!!!
Bummer man,...agreed, big waste of your time...and the owner most likely DID know. I also don't totally agree with the "you get what you pay for" statement...I have seen PLENTY of overpriced cars, from owner's who hadn't a clue. Yes, there are exceptional cars, worth the money (as Lawwdog loves to brag ) but there are also many very nice cars offered at lower prices too, you just need to be more careful in the selection process. A very careful "once over" by yourself, along with a detailed look at the service history, receipts, and a Car Fax, would be mandatory before spending any more time or money on a prospective candidate. This one would never had made it to a PPI for me...the lack of reciepts for the major service would raise WAY too many flags...as would a "buddy" selling the car for the owner...(heard that one before). Bottom line (as my friend Dr. Rentiers is known to say...) "this car should have marks all over it from the 10 foot poles!" Dave
Compare it to a Miss High-Maintenance; that's a cheap date that saved you a bundle, a headache and a disease.
Can you safely post a link or auction where you found the car? Perhaps others can be equally forewarned. -Daniel
Steve, as I told Dave earlier today when he told me about this......there are a LOT of nice 355's on the market. The right one will find you!
This is some good advice. Live and learn and maybe you can save the $350 on another questionable one. Being able to walk away on these "story" cars is hard to do sometimes but if you stick to your rules you'll enjoy some happy driving down the road. Sounds like some cheap education there for you
Dave, since you brought it up I'll respectfully respond to your comment so you know that my bragging is justified. Or, at least you may see another side to the great "what is a Ferrari Worth" discussion. To requote you, you responded " I also don't totally agree with the "you get what you pay for" statement...I have seen PLENTY of overpriced cars, from owner's who hadn't a clue. Yes, there are exceptional cars, worth the money (as Lawwdog loves to brag ) but there are also many very nice cars offered at lower prices too, you just need to be more careful in the selection process." I have real world experience now selling 2 355's. I spoke with Steve R on the phone when he inquired about my car. He sounded like all of us are/were when buying the first Ferrari....you just want to get the right car but you want a great deal. So you know, I have also have been pounded by what I consider uneducated prospective Ferrari owners who are driven by one thing PRICE. My statement you get what you pay brings to light this point. If me or someone else is asking $96K for a 100% correct car with all the updates for service, cats, headers, valve guides, dash board you name it...then a prosepctive owner (as in this case Steve R) should step to the plate and know that the car is one he can drive for the next 4 -5 years with nothing but an oil change and a future 15K service. This is the same ownership cycle an original owner enjoyed during a typical 4 -5 year ownership. Today, most 95,96,97,98 355's are rounding this cycle. Prospective owners and the uninformed have seen or will see that a car that has had what it needs done is worth $90 - $97K only if what I mentioned is down. If you have a 30K completed without headers or cats and you pay $87 - $89K for the car that's a great deal......but when you drive it for a year and spend $4 - $7K for new headers cats etc you have a car that now cost $95 - $97K. Hence YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. I think most people make themselves feel good by saying "I got a great deal on this car" when in reallity..when they check their check book and see how much that car cost them before, during, and after ownership...their great deal was B.S. I think you will agree...Most people will not tell you how much they paid for their car after they paid for items they didn't ecpect to pay for because of embarrasement. I like to share the truth with future owners what the reallity of buying and owning these cars are. I share with others not because I am/was selling my car. But because I was brought up in the Ferrari Community by 2 guys on this board who led me down the right path.....my ownership has been completely what I expected. Know that a correct 355 and happy ownership = getting what you pay for. Mario P.S. Dave....find me a red/tan 355/360... i'm willing to get what I pay for P.S.S. Steve R ....the wait for a Ferrari is like the wait for you first woman...keeping licking your chops...it is what you expect when you get it the first time.
Mario, I never doubted the quality of your car, congrats on it's sale, I have no doubt some lucky new owner is jazzed over their new aquisition. In every respect I appreciated the "turn-key" condition of your car. No doubt, I understood what it was all about. Only thing, the carbon black wasn't my thing....but your price (as offered to me) was more then fair..it was very fair! I'm not looking for a "steal"...just the right Ferrari in the right condition. At this point, I'm about to give-in and just give the local dealer his price on that fiorano. The worst part is that the very same Fiorano WAS available to me for about $16,000 less before it was sold to the dealership. Sucks. Just FYI, the car the basically blew-up on me today had the same exact claims as your car: 30k service done, exhaust headers replaced, everything clean & right. In the end, it's about honesty & integrity: You have it, they didn't. I think these guys knew about the problems and hoped it would slide by. Either way, it's history. gotta run...thanks again for everyone's help. Btw...are the exhaust manifolds clear of defect in a '99, I doubt it since the word is to avoid OEM entirely
LAWDOG - Very well put - agree 100%. A perfect car with documentation and service up to date will demand appropriate pricing. I ended up purchasing my 355 from a dealer with a fresh 30K and extended warranty. It's been 3 years now (and 4 concours trophys) and the car has been 100% pleasure with only normal service items (oil and one bad rad switch). STEVE R - Don't feel bad, I literally spent over $2K in nine months on PPI'S before finding the "right" car. Actually it would have been more if not for the kind help of FChatters who would go out and do a "visual" on the car before I went as far as a PPI. Brings to mind a fellow FChatter in NY who drove in a snow storm in the dead of night to look at a car for me...what a wonderful community we have here... ps - my 97 red/tan spider might be for sale...getting Lambo in March and I'm tight on space...would prefer to keep her if possible. Send me a pm if you want info.
FL355, Red/Tan eh????? Didn't know Ferrari came in that color/interior I'm stuck on Black/something...can't get it out of my head...it matches all my wife's lingerie!!! I appreciate the offer just the same, ya can't go wrong with Re-Sale-Red/tan! Today is a new day and I'm not so upset with the waste of $350, it's exactly like insurance: money well spent. My only annoyance is that the sellers tried to decieve me and as such wasted my time & money. They insisted they had the records and that the work was done. For those in the search, Beware: it's a very distinctive car, Black/Tan '97 355 spyder with a CHROME CHALLENGE GRILL, speedline chrome wheels and his buddy selling the car for him. They paged it as the "nicest 355 in California". Run...don't walk...run away from this car!!! It'll be up on ebay in a few days. The mechanic said he wouldn't buy the car and if he did, $75k max: plan on a lot of engine work!
Steve, I'd like to point you to a few sources that you may not know about. The marketplace for Ferraris is more extensive than some people think! Not that you aren't aware of how to find Ferraris in the marketplace... but perhaps there are a few sources you didn't know about. The best sites to find Ferraris for sale: http://www.ferraribuy.com/ http://www.thecarexperience.com/main.htm http://www.dupontregistry.com/search/srAutoIndex.asp http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com/cctol_adbrowseprocess1.html http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cars http://www.ferrariclubofamerica.org/ And there's always the Ferrari dealer network--an excellent source. http://www.ferrariusa.com/Marketplace/index.asp And there's the Ferrari Market Letter classifieds, but you have to be a subsciber to view them. An excellent source. www.ferrarimarketletter.com And don't forget about www.cars.com ! Lastly, there's always the good-old (not really) FerrariAds: http://www.ferrariads.com
Mario, There is no arguing...your point has always been valid. The issue is that there are excellent cars, with 30k's done, and new headers and cats, for less. It just takes time, and a williness to do the leg work...and no, I am not in the "car finding" business, so you are on your own. I know the cars exist, I recently bought one, and from an authorized FNA dealer no less!
Hey Steve can you PM me the guys name selling it? I'm curious if it is the guy I think it is. 355 sales are filled with stories. Outside the the PPI I also suggest you look at three "wear" areas and get a baseline of what real miles look like. Handy in case of speedo rollback. Check the inside doorhandles, the brake handle, and seat belt label. They will have a certain "look". Also the door hinges. They wear a bit. You can feel the difference.
Steve I know how you feel - I went through some PPI money myself before I got my car and you do get psyched up to bring that first one home!! Maserati of Pasadena has (or had recently) a black 355 spider in their showroom - I know nothing else about it but you might want to check with them if you haven't already. I'd think that with trying to establish the Maser dealership they wouldn't take in crap, but then again there was that Biturbo... Good luck in the hunt - there are lots of 355s out there so keep after it. Cheers Kevin
