355 - 355 Spider Chasing down leak | FerrariChat

355 355 Spider Chasing down leak

Discussion in '348/355' started by Johnnieblack115, Apr 23, 2023.

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  1. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
    219
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Jonathan Walker
    My 97 spider has been leaking after every trip I bring it out. I didn’t notice the leak until after completing an oil change back I the winter. I checked the reservoir plug which was torqued (possibly too much) and the plug at the front of the sump case is torqued down as well. I tried to follow a leak and found an interesting are under what looked to be the water pump. Would anybody happen to know of any common problem areas that may be the culprit?

    Side note: is there a visual way to tell your belt condition outside of the obvious (cracks, fraying, etc)
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  2. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    Edit: oil drip is forming under the AC compressor not water pump… that’s embarrassing


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  3. Mike Morrissey

    Mike Morrissey Formula 3
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    Nov 2, 2018
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    A common problem, usually this leak is from the valve cover, if a small amount of RTV sealant wasn’t used in the corners during installation.
     
  4. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    Thank you! I’ve still been driving the car and just keeping an eye on the levels. I’m assuming the valve covers may be a little outside your average DIY


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  5. Mike Morrissey

    Mike Morrissey Formula 3
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    Nov 2, 2018
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    I had the same problem, on both sides since my last major service. Re-torquing the valve cover bolts totally corrected the leak on the right, but still, I have a slight leak on the left, and will correct it this year during another major service. It would be good to get more thoughts from the group here.
     
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  6. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
    219
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    Jonathan Walker
    That makes a lot of sense. The leak itself accumulates a small wet area in front of the right rear tire over the course of the next day, one drip about every 5 minutes or so.

    I’m looking to perform the major this fall/winter but wanted to make sure it stayed healthy this driving season


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  7. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
    219
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Jonathan Walker
  8. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
    219
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Jonathan Walker
  9. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
    677
    Vermont
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    john truskowski
    If you are not sure as to the exact location of the leak you could wash everything down and put some dye in the oil and then inspect it with a black light. That will help to narrow it down. Based on your pics it looks like valve cover gaskets are a likely suspect and sealer (as mentioned in post 3). Not a bad job.
     
  10. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    Much appreciated, is there a good thread or video going through the cover removal process? Stumbling through the oil change has me weary about just taking stuff apart haha


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  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    There is no oil above the valve covers, unless you spilled some while you were adding oil to the car. Your car looks like it's leaking from the valve cover gaskets or the cam shaft seals. Although, that oil spot on the ground is much too big to be just a valve cover. On that side of the car, there are several oil lines going between engine and oil tank and radiator. One of those lines are probably responsible for a large leak like that on the ground.
     
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  12. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    Update: I have a significant PS leak I’ve been chasing down and found this line that looks like it’s missing a clamp Image Unavailable, Please Login
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    Does anyone know what this goes to? I followed it with my hand and it seems to terminate somewhere under the PS reservoir but doesn’t go to it. Is it related?
     
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  13. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    You need to POINT to the line in question. There are too many lines ...
     
  14. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

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    Fair enough, it’s center frame


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  15. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    cavlino and Qavion like this.
  16. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Air box ventilation it is! Thank you for the help sir, thanks for your patience I was juggling toddlers and didn’t have a laptop to label the photo with


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  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Well, that carries just air from the airbox to the charcoal cannister. There is no oil or liquid in it and there is no clamp. The fitting that is there is a quick squeeze and pull fitting and does not need a clamp, although quick is no longer the case since it is 40 years old.

    If you find PS fluid at the bottom of that line, it is probably PS fluid from one of three PS hoses that run above or near that ventilation hose.

    1. Hi pressure line from the PS pump to a metal fitting at the firewall.
    2. Low pressure return hose from a pipe next to the metal fitting of (1.) to the bottom of the PS fluid reservoir. If this is the one, you have to buy a new one with correct shape from Ricambi or someone else. Do not try to use a straight hose to do this.
    3. Small S hose feeding tube from the Reservoir to the PS pump. If this is the one, you have to buy a new one from Ricambi or someone else. Do not try to use a straight hose to do this.

    Significant leak probably comes from hose number 1, that runs all over the top of the engine in the middle of the V, exiting out toward the left hand side air plenum, rubbing up against all kinds of metal pieces before it goes to the firewall. That is the hardest one to change and would normally be inspected during the engine out AND changed whenever it has any sign of wear or rubbing with metal things.

    To see what is going on, you might need to:

    1. Drain and remove the coolant reservoir
    2. Remove the airbox at the rear of the engine
    3. Climb into the engine bay and loosen the mounting bracket for the PS steering reservoir

    Now inspect the long winding hose from the PS pump to the left hand side firewall. IF you find that to be the problem, you are ... 20% to full removal of that line. Full removal requires removing 1) throttle cable assembly, 2) gear oil heat exchanger, 3) PS reservoir, 4) loosening of the fuel line block out of the way. Then muscling the metal fitting with a 17mm wrench and a 22mm wrench. Then unwind that long hose out from under the heat exchanger inside the V of the engine. You might need to remove the upper 90 degree large coolant hose just to have some more space for the wrenches.

    You might get lucky and it's one of the other hoses.

    By the way, that hose is uber expensive and no longer available. Your best bet is to take it (or send it) to a hydraulic shop and have them make you a new one while re-using the pressure limiting device on your old hose. The banjo end is probably readily available. The 22mm fitting is reused.

    Best of luck.
     
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  18. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    Wow these posts are truly what make this forum amazing. Sounds like I have my work cut out for me but I just have to say thank you for taking the time to break it down into an understandable, easy-to-follow manner.

    I’ll start with the coolant reservoir removal and work from there. When I brought this up to the shop that handled my brake line they laughed and said they weren’t interested in messing with Ferrari PS (they’re a traditional general mechanic shop). Saves me some cash making it a DIY. Hate to take this thing apart during driving season but don’t want to stress the car out driving without PS. If the pump goes (it may have already?) I’m guessing it causes a ripple effect with everything else it’s belted to.


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  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Oh, step 0 (before you do anything): remove engine lid.
     
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  20. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Did that last night! That’s how I was able to follow the lines in the first place. Do you know if removing the intake is needed or can access be made by working over the soft top from the interior?


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  21. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,724
    WI
    Pressure limiting device? What's that? Is there an orifice or something inside that hose?
     
  22. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 9, 2010
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    Take the seats out and cover your top. You can lean into the engine bay from the passenger compartment for additional access.
     
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  23. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    Perfect, one of the few practical benefits of the spider lol. Running the car without PS, obviously steering effort increases, is there any additional downstream damage that can be done over time?


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  24. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Running the pump without fluid in it will damage it. There is no rebuild kit, just replacement.
     
  25. Johnnieblack115

    Johnnieblack115 Karting

    Nov 18, 2022
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    Jonathan Walker
    It’s the same pump as the e46 M3 correct?


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