Hello and Help, I haven't used my convertible top in years, I usually store my car in my garage under a car cover with the top down. Decided to functionally test the top, first it didn't do much...checked fluid, it was low so I serviced that. Next, I cycled the top a few times with the emergency switch for convenience (I'm 6'3" so sitting in the car during the top cycle is not very comfortable). Next, I attempted to cycle the top with the normal center console switch, this is what I observed from a starting point of engine off, ignition on, top down/retracted, parking brake set, seat full aft, doors closed and windows up: 1. Pilot and Co-Pilot seats track full forward 2. Windows roll down approximately 2 inches 3. Hydraulic power pack energizes 4. Top closes normally Then I immediately attempted an top retraction cycle and observed the following: 1. Actuation of the console switch and continuous beeping is observed (normal) 2. Push up on forward edge of top tip a single beep is heard 3. No further actuation of top is noted at this point (abnormal)...no actuation of hydraulic power pack is heard. Back to emergency switch and top retracts normally. Can anyone offer any pearls of wisdom? Thanks!
Did the seats move forward and windows go down when you tried to open the roof? (Just wondering if your down switch contacts are operating). Do you hear any relays clicking?
Strange. According to the manual, once the pump motor activates and the top starts moving down, then the windows start moving. Pump operation continues if both windows move to their slightly down (5cm) position. Perhaps the wording of the manual is not quite correct. Have you tried the override to move the top half way down, then continued using the centre console switch?
I can only say what I observed...and I started this from a top down condition (which functioned normally) so the seats were already full forward and the windows had already moved down approximately 5cm prior to my attempt to retract the top
Ah.. ok.. so you didn't go through a full cycle during the top up procedure (i.e seats back to their original position). Of course, it shouldn't make any difference, unless perhaps some of the position switches/sensors are playing up. Even though the beeper sounds, are you manually assisting the top by pushing on the crossbar? There are a few message threads on this topic on the 348/355 forum.
Could you try a complete cycle of the closing operation? i.e. Let everything get back to where it should be prior to starting. Because the system has lain dormant for a while, you may have to cycle a few of the position switches which inhibit roof operation (either by roof operation or manually) to see if that makes a difference. For example, the microswitch on the rear of the left hand "additional" piston (this is often the cause of roof problems, although I'm not 100% sure if this affects the top open operation). Are you running the engine during this process? Sometimes the extra volts helps (and is specified in the workshop manual when testing the system). Here's a diagram of the wiring if you need it: Roof wiring schematic
Yes, I will try a complete cycle when I get it out of the garage tomorrow... I have only been trying this on battery power, I had planned to try it with the engine running but it has be raining here for the better part of two weeks. I hope to get her out in between the clouds and rain drops tomorrow. Thanks for the wiring diagram.
The sequence is when the top latch is released the widows go down. The pushing the top back a little gives a beep. At that point you use the switch on the console and the seats move forward. Once the seats are forward the pump starts and the top retracts. Once retracted the seats move back.
Thanks for the sequence...I was attempting to begin a retraction immediately following an extension...(engine off) seats full forward, windows partially down and so forth. I am going to retry it with the seats and windows in a normal position with the engine running. It’s been raining in South Florida almost continuously for the last two weeks, expecting an Ark soon, lol. I’ll report back after I get the car outside to get engine running.
You should be able to stop at any point and reverse. Shouldn't matter if the engine is running unless the battery is weak. And for God sake, make it stop raining. I'm heading your way Friday.
Ha! I just tried my roof and it also has some major issues. However, I confirmed what John said. The windows drop down as soon as you crack the roof open. This must mean that switch "S9" on the window frame tells the roof controller to tell the window controller to open the windows). When the window "5cm down" switches activate, the switches send a signal to the roof controller which tells the windows to stop moving. The seats don't run forward until you activate the roof toggle switch on the centre console AND apply the handbrake. I spent a few hours trying to get my roof to go down and then up. At one point the roof was closed, but I lost manual control of the seats. Anyway, I'll get around to fixing that another day. Diagram updated slightly: Roof schematic It's probably not related, but now my doors won't lock with the remote or with the console switch.
Here is a lesson I learned from years of ownership of a Spider. Sometimes you have to learn to leave good enough alone and stop ****ing with it
Yep, my top has worked perfectly from the day I got the car, 5 years ago. Activated only when necessary.
Disregard that note on my diagram stating that S12 and Sx are the same switch. I got that from the Workshop Manual, but elsewhere it explains that Sx is a separate switch which inputs purely into the Window ECU. When the roof is fully down, the Sx switch is activated and it allows the window control switches on the doors to take back control of the windows (the Roof Controller inhibits these switches whilst the roof is in transit). I'll upload a corrected diagram in a few days time. Cheers
Doors shut. Parking brake on. Release latch and push back until you hear a "beep". Windows should drop about 3 inches. Operate switch. Seats move forward. Once seats stop moving, the pump starts and continues the cycle. Once fully lowered, another beep, then the seats move back into the last set position. Once complete, you can now manualy control the windows and seats. If the ecu thinks the top is not fully up or down, the windows and seat will not work with the switches.
If the seats are not calibrated properly, might this cause the pump not to start? Can the seats be recalibrated without an SD1? You would think, though, if the roof went up normally, it would go down normally.
When working on my roof problem, I noticed that the bypass switches are not wired up like the Workshop Manual shows they are. I think the WSM shows a simplified diagram. The bypass microswitches have normally open and normally closed contacts (and three wires each). This suggests to me that during normal roof operation. the roof controler uses the "normally closed" contacts when communicating with the up/down relays. This leads to the possibility that a faulty bypass switch can interfere with the normal operation of the roof. Faulty switches are probably not likely, however, as they are rarely used (and not likely to wear out). Having said that, one of my switches doesn't sound particularly healthy. There is a six pin plug inline with the microswitches. I might try disconnecting this plug and see if this stops the roof operating normally. Robert, if you're running out of ideas for fixing the roof, you may be able to put a jumper wire on the bypass switch harness plug to eliminate the switches as a possible cause. I'll get some pin numbers for you.
I confirmed today that the roof will not operate normally with the bypass switches disconnected, so normal roof operation must use contacts in the bypass microswitches. I added some extra detail to the Ferrari diagram to show how the switches might operate.... Spider Roof Electrics I did continuity checks on the bypass switch wiring, but there is still something in the circuit which doesn't make sense (i.e. the handbrake wiring going to the switches). The handbrake switch is supposed to be part of the circuit, but with the handbrake on or off, I still get an earth on the orange/black wires. I'm hoping it's because on my non-USA car, I have a number of other devices attached to the park brake circuit (front brake wear sensors, brake fluid level sensor, Roof ECU, etc) which may be providing an earth with all the electrics turned off (during my tests).
Keith, I don't know if you've read the message thread on the 355 forum, but I made a few discoveries when I was working on my own roof problem (and have to retract what I said earlier in this message thread). It's not applicable to your problem, but I discovered that only the window controller controls the windows. The roof controller has no input into the window controller. However, the window controller does use some of the roof sensors. Even with the roof controller plugs disconnected, unlatching the roof makes the windows roll down 5cm and causes manual window operation to cease. I still can't figure out what's wrong with your roof, however. It could be a faulty "down" bypass switch. It could be the roof controller (The window controller has replaceable internal relays, but I'm not sure about the roof controller). Perhaps one of the pistons has a broken internal microswitch which is already showing fully extended (down)? In the last case, I don't know if the roof mechanism has asymmetry protection: Will the controller stop the pump if one of the pistons has reached full extension, but not the other one? However, even if both pistons have extended fully, I believe the pump should still run for 1 second (and you're not hearing this).
In reviewing the schematic, can someone tell me where the connection is made to the 12V input. I have no voltage to the seat switches and the roof switch on the center console.
