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355 Spider seats and top strange things

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Cavallino Motors, Aug 6, 2004.

  1. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    I mean we all know that from time to time the top is no longer working because of the senson of the seat. Here is what I have going on:

    When I open the top the seats move forward and then the windows open and then the top moves back but not down! It just stays there.
    Then the bypass switch will actually do the rest, so it is not that there is a motor not working.
    Then the passenger seat moves back with the seat adjuster but the drivers seat is stuck all the way up front. It did not work in the first place with the switch.

    If I do the process all the way back and close the top, the passneger seat moves forward and the top closes but the drivers seat does not come back either.

    What the hell could that be?

    I mean it is moving since it moved forward so there is power but then it is almost as if the reverse cycle is not moving.

    Now the seat is stuck in the front and not moving at all. Is there a bypass for the seat as well so I can get the darn thing back?
    Any ideas?

    Its the weekend guys I want to drive the Spider.....
     
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  3. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
  4. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    Well Martin - The only thing I can tell you is... I deactivated my seat motion when putting the top down - after fixing the whole top mechinism about 5 times and 3K worth of parts and labor...

    So - when I put my top (up or down) - I get in the car leaving the doors open - put the emergency break on, then activate the top down button... I have to help it along in about 2 places for it to work then... and I had the whole top motor, sensors, etc. replaced just over a year ago... Which based on my intervention is not working right - since about 3 months after I got it back.

    My next step honestly - is to make it a 100% manual top - since I leave mine down 80% of the time anyway (not driving it when it rains or snows).

    So now to your problem...

    So your seats are stuck in a certain position (probably drivers side).

    Easy thing to try first - turn off the kill switch up front - for like 10 minutes - then try again. That probably will not work - so don't get your hopes up.

    Second - try your best to get a good angle under the drivers seat - which is next to impossible with it all the way up - boy this is bringing back memories! There is a connector there that connects the drive motor to the switch - disconnect and reconnect a couple of times - to make sure it is a good connection - sometimes it will get in the way of the track and disconnects a little.

    If the connection is good - and no go - you can try and get to the drive motor to remove it - or loosen it so you can manually force the seat back - and then tighten again - so it is in (permanently) the position you want it.

    Check your fuses for the seat motors - I think they are in the footwell of the passenger side - they could be blown - but if one is working and the other isn't - I think it is a one fuse thing - maybe it is two - so could be a potential.

    I am honestly waiting for mine to go out again - I am going to put in Milano Leather Sports Seats (same color as the tan interior) - which have manual seat adjustment. I am going to rip out the top motor and make it all manual - and probably knock off 30 lbs - not to mention the frustration of the thing not working right half the time...

    And for all those 355 spider owners out there that are saying - but mine works fine... just give it time - they are all exactly the same motor and design - they will go out - it is just a matter of time.

    Hope that helps get you started Martin!

    Rich
     
  5. FL 355

    FL 355 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2002
    1,665
    Ft Laud
    Full Name:
    Frank Lipinski
    Hello Martin - Long Time!

    Rich is correct. Only thing I want to add is you may have to reset the parameters in the ECU (if you want to sell it). Tim S now has the F computer and Cliff can do it for about $65. Does not sound like potentiometer, but if it is he can also get the part by itself without the entire seat rail assembly.

    RICH - you and I are on the same page. I'll make a gentleman's agreement with you. The first one who has a top problem does it and does a nice write up here on Fchat with pix...OK? Also can you PM with info on the seats you are thinking of using. I'm interested in going manual sport seats (tan also) with better adjustments and having a hard time finding something that looks correct.

    Thanks/Frank
     
  6. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3
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    Feb 6, 2004
    1,950
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    Frank - it's a deal... I am to the point I actually want it to fail... Every time I raise or lower it - I am sitting their Cursing it inside my head (I hate when the voices take over :) saying ok - just don't work - one time!

    I am, and have been speaking with the guys at Sparco about their Sparco Milano (tan leather) seats... I have taken a look at a leather sample from the seats - and I must say it is nearly a dead on match. They also are highly adjustable - both up and back as well as the "back tilt"... Of course these are Manual seats not electric - which is great by me.

    The only catch would be the need for me to (most likely) fabricate the mounting brackets to fit on the existing tracks (they think they might have one from another make that may match (I would need to take the seat out and send measurements) - or I could mount new tracks as well - which is more of a solid design - IMO - but would require drilling into the frame...

    When I looked for a seat - my first criteria was to get a tan that matched - or I would have them recovered - if I couln't find the right match. These are running only 1300 each - and I have taken a look at the seat and they seem to be pretty well done - about 2X better than stock seats from a adjustability and what I would call leather durability. They are also lighter than the stock seats - however they are not Cabon Fiber or Track seats - these should be looked at as more replacement seats - that are just more sporty. You can do a 3, 4, 5 point harness setup as well or just keep the current seatbelt.. Take a look...

    Martin - good luck - and let us know if any of the things we mentioned work - or you can be the first "Top" project :)

    Rich
     
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  8. Hi Martin,

    Forgive me if you already know this, but though I would throw in my two-cents in the case it helps you.

    Sometimes when the seat potentiometers go, they do it intermittently at first... and it appears to confuse the system. I would suggest you take the car to someone who can connect a Ferrari SD II directly to the top computer... the plug is located near the fluid reservoir under the cover between the seats. Then, you can manually run the seats fore and aft (using the software) while looking at a numeric representation of the seat position sensor's resistance. You may find that the resistance value of one of the seat position sensors changes linearly up to a certain point and then the resistance value simply stops but the seat continues to move forward or back. This is a sure indication that the position sensor is bad- at least after the potentiometer reaches a certain point in it's "sweep." You can also use this software to run the seats forward or backward while you have a DVM connected up to the sensor connector (located just under the front of each seat) and watch your DVM display for resistance. The pot should sweep through about 4.7k and be sure to check both ends with respect to the wiper. There are three connections on each sensor. If memory serves me, the center pin is the wiper, and the other two pins are each end of the resistor.

    Once the position sensor is replaced, the top computer can be a bit confused as to where the seat positions really are. So, the seats are run fully forward, then fully back using the software. The small clutch inside position sensor will allow the potentiometer to slip when it reaches it's maximum or minimum position, effectively setting the potentiometer to be at max or min when the seat is fully forward or backward.

    Now the trick (at least it worked for me!) 1. Using the SD II, clear the top computer fault codes. 2. Disconnect the SD II. 3. Disconnect the battery for about 20 seconds or so and reconnect using the switch under the hood. 4. Turn on the ignition and start the engine, then try the top again. This seems to clear up the computer.

    I don't know why the last step of your hydraulic system is not working, but my feeling is that the computer is confused, one of the switches is not telling the computer that the previous sequence has finalized, or the top computer is shot. In any event, you can monitor all of the switches in real time with the SD II and it is sometimes very clear which closure has not taken place. Knowing the right sequence of the closures is something I have no experience with, but might not be that hard to figure out!

    Guys, I'm not a Ferrari mechanic, and I am very new to my 355. So, if you know otherwise, please feel free to correct my statements. I'm learning too!!!

    Cheers.
     
  9. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    Sounds excellent. Lots of Info guys thatnks a million.
    I guess this is one doozy I will not be able to workout myself.
    I will talk to Tim S tomorrow and see when he can take the car in.

    Martin
     

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