355 Teves ABS help

I see some strange statements on the second page about the Main Relay (should be green colour). Assuming that the 355 Teves ABS Main Relay is the same as that in the 348:

1. It is not clear what they mean by "main relay internal resistance". If it is between the contact points for pins 30 and 87a (normally closed points), the resistance cannot be so much unless the contacts are burned but they carry only a small current which is for the small bulb in the abs warning light and perhaps a little more for grounding two of the ABS ECU pins. If the resistance between 30 and 87a was ~100 Ohm, then the ABS warning light would not be "on" or would light rather dim. If the mentioned 100 Ohm is of the relay coil, this is the normal resistance of it and it may go up by one or two ohm with temperature.

2. "Unable to find a replacement" - this is a very standard automotive 5-pin cube relay with pins 85, 86, 30, 87 and 87a. This relay is also called "change over relay" since 30 to 87a is normally closed and 30 to 87 is normally open (and they switch their states when the relay is energised). You can get this relay at almost any car parts shop.

3. "Attempted to swap pins..." - this makes no sense; what "compatible" relay they attempted to use? A standard 5-pin relay, as described above, just plugs in.

It is possible that your Main Relay is faulty and does not engage (or possibly somebody put a wrong relay there ?). As I mentioned in post #10, if this relay does not engage, the ABS light will stay "on" and you will not have ABS function when breaking.

I suggest you get a new relay and give it a try. It should have a diagram on it and pins like on this picture:

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Have look at the diagram on the existing relay in your car and the markings at its pins, just to be sure the new relay has the same markings. You should bring the original relay with you when looking for a new one.

 

Check the ABS computer ground for continuity in the harness. I had an issue with a burned ground in the ABS computer on mine, I resoldered and it worked fine, but as the dealer swapped ecu's and it still did it, ground is an easy check.

 

Definitely not. The "relay with the white dot" is not a relay. It's a module with only two diodes in it.

The main relay is the green relay

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There should be a large PINK wire coming from the 30 amp fuse to pin 87 of the relay socket.

 

Interesting. If that green relay is the correct type, it doesn't look like a standard changeover relay. Actually, looking at the pin configuration, it doesn't look like any of those relays are standard.

 

On a standard relay, pin 30 is as shown:

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You can double check your tech's relay test.

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With no power applied to the relay, you should have zero ohms between pin 87a and 30. With the coil energised (with a small battery across pins 85 and 86), you should have continuity between 87 and 30. Also make sure you have power at the relay socket (pin 30) and, as suggested by Pete @bobzdar make sure you have a good ground on relay socket (pin 87a).

Check the resistance of the relay coil across relay pins 85 and 86

 

Green relay energised test:

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With the other relays, they have diodes across the coils, so you have to get the battery polarity correct. Further instructions will be required.

Maybe a small 9 volt battery would be better for the test than a 1.5v.

 

That photo of your black (pump) relay doesn't seem to match the wiring diagrams (I'm assuming it's not the one with the white dot on it). The pin numbers are 87a, 87b, 87c, 30 and 87d. The wiring diagrams show a 4 pin relay with 87, 85, 86 and 30. I'm not sure how I would go about checking that other than trying to use pin 30 as a reference (assuming it is power with a big red wire going to it).

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I'm starting to wonder how the relays are configured internally. Have Teves rewired the internals of the relays or just put different numbering on the base of a standard Bosch relay to confuse everyone. If you can match specific relay base pins to vehicle wire colours, perhaps that would be the better way to go. At least we know what the wires are attached to.

 

What's the brand name/s on the relays. I see Siemens on one relay:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147202030/

 

Does the green relay have a schematic on the side?

Does it correspond to this diagram?

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e.g. Are pins 85 and 86 the coil or something else

 

If this relay nil stock situation gets worse, I can see that 348 owners are going to have to modify their relay sockets to allow standard relays to be fitted.

Did you find a 9 volt battery? You could probably put the battery terminals directly across the green relay coil pins to activate the coil (without using test leads) and put your multimeter probes on 30 and 87.

 

There are two pin configurations for change-over (and other) cube relays:
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Note the swap of the pins 30 and 86 on the right relay. The two types are internally same except for the different pin arrangement. The type at the right is rarely used (BMWs of the 80s had them, Hella) but it is still available. The standard type (left) can be used in place of the "special" (right) relay if the sockets 30 and 86 in the relay connector are swapped.

After looking at some pictures of the Ferrari 348 ABS "green" relay, it appears that its pin configuration is like on the pinout shown on the right pic above, i.e. "special". It also appears to be Siemens V23134-E52-X84. I see one on Ebay: GENUINE FERRARI 208 308 348 SIEMENS Brake System Electronic Unit Relay 131938 | eBay. The question is: is the 355 ABS green relay same as the 348 green relay?

If the 355 green relay is same as the one on the 348, then its pinout should be like the pinout on the right picture. In this case, you can either buy a change-over relay with this pin arrangement (not easily available in parts shops, google for V23134-E52-X84) or you can swap the sockets 30 and 86 in the relay socket and use the standard pinout relay (perhaps this is what the tech was trying to do?).

Can somebody who has a 355 with Teves ABS confirm what pinout the green ABS relay has. If there is no green relay it is the relay with a diagram at its side like this:
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John, I just noticed hat the green relay you are holding has the "special" pin arrangement, like the one shown on the right picture above. Does your wiring to the connector for this relay match your green relay pinout? If it does, then check whether the new relay you bought has the same pinout as your green relay. Perhaps you can post pictures of the two relays showing the markings at their pins.

 

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Now the big question... where to go from here. The ABS fault light seemed pretty solid during their tests. Even after they erased the fault code by driving over 40kph, the fault seems to have resurfaced before the car reached 40kph (?) or did the light go out at 40kph and then resurface.

"Performed all diag tests and checks again with similar results"

What do they mean by "similar results". Did the 2.2 fault come back? Did the ABS stop working? Can you run the ECU test yourself?

Experts: Are any of the hydraulic delivery valves replaceable or does the entire unit have to be replaced? Would a single valve failure cause a total ABS failure.

When you did the battery test on the black relay, did you use the same pins as the other relays? The numbering system was completely different to the others (If so, let me know and I can add a note to my wiring diagrams). Thanks!

 

How about shotgunning the system with some of the less expensive items (if there are any)? Since the ABS and Brake warning lights are coming on (hinting at a pressure issue), maybe replace the black pump relay?

Do you have an aftermarket immobiliser system with a starter relay fitted? These have been known to disable the ABS system via the orange relay. The orange relay provides power to the ABS system when it is relaxed. Sometimes the relaxed contacts can be faulty.