355 Timing belt tensioner (not the bearings)

Yes

 

Best to replace with Hill Engineering tensioners while the engine is out!

 

I didn't replace mine, they were working fine (still providing tension). I think I've seen some threads where they had basically collapsed and weren't doing much...

 

Frankly this is one area that has me a little worried. While I prefer the hydraulic tensioners in the F355, I really loved the fact that when I did my majors in my 308s/328 I could just change the tensioner spring (yes, I know it's over-kill) and be assured that the system was back to original factory specs. It was very cheap insurance, IMHO. Conversely, the hydraulic tensioners are much more expensive. Is there a way to measure the resistance of the hydraulic tensioner and if so, what is the approximate tension?

 

They are a sealed unit mate.

I have re-used them before. Probably wouldnt re-use them on an engine where you have to "pull" the engine 99% of the time to change belts and tensioners.

But on 'normal' cars, have re-used them at my discretion and at owners requests.

 

I am sure there is a way to check them mate, but most check the belt tension after they fit the new belts.

I was very lucky once on my own car, a Mitsubishi Magna V6 sedan.

I replaced the cam belt, no worries there. 3 weeks or so later, the car started running rough. The timing was out, as it was back firing etc..etc..

I pulled the cam covers and checked the timing marks. One of the cams was out by two teeth. STRANGE.........I thought!

I pulled it all apart and then checked the timing belt tensioner. It was ****ed! It had very very 'weak' tension on it. So weak, that I could actually push it back in with my fingers/hands. Mind you, I am very strong.

Either way, it was ****ed and it let the cam belt jump two teeth!

Luckily, my engine does not succomb to valve damage when the belt breaks or cam timing is out.

I replaced the tensioner with a new one for $40 and I was on my way. NO issues to this day, 18 months later.

Its a shame the Ferrari tensioners are not as cheap.

 

Thanks, Pap. If only Ferrari engines did not "grenade" under those circumstances.

When I do my 30K major I'll give the hydraulic tensioners the old finger-push, but I'm probably just going to suck it up and replace them as, in all probability, they are the originals. Better to spend $650.00, than $30K.

 

I am assuming you are talking about setting the tensioners once the new belts are fitted? If the answer is yes then with out going into great detail. The tensioners are set by the feel/friction of a pin inserted into the purpose drilled hole in the body of the unit. This is done in conjunction with the rotating the bearing its self, which has an ofset center bolt afixing hole. Then once settled its checked again.
But if you were asking a different question, please disregard my last
Was going to post a picture of the pin in the housing, but i have exceeded my picture posting quota Oh well

 

I agree Scott. Better safe than sorry.

 

Thanks, Zero. I was actually speaking of the hydraulic tensioner unit itself, but I very much appreciate you taking the time to post.

 

Your very welcome mate

 

Nope, back to the manual....

 

Why are you saying that?? I have done the above method for many years on a few 355s. Taught to me by a ferrari tec and its correct. The bearing is rotated clockwise to compress the tensioner to allow the pin to be inserted. Then anti clock wise to seat the new bearing against the belt and enough to allow the pin to move easily in an out. Its not rocket science.
So what are you saying? Oh i notice you are a consultant explains why you made your comment.

 

Ferrari tech was wrong, there is a specific clearance. Pin and hole is simply there to keep it from fully extending when not loaded. Nope, not rocket science at all, consult the manual.

Roll eyes?.... checking the color of the sky?

 

Not wanting to upset the "expert". But the method i mentioned works in setting the tensioner bearings very well. Yes the pin is clearly used to hold back the piston. then the pin is jammed and cant be moved. But also when the new bearing is rotated, it is done so until the pin can be moved in and out of the hole. That sets the bearing correctly.
Like i have said i have used this method myself and all the engines have never had problems. Many do it this way and it works.
Although there is no telling a consultant on here is there. The manual says alot of things that are long winded, there are alot of easier ways of doing things. An example of this is one is supposed to use a belt gauge to set the auxiliary belt, but not many do. They do the 90% twist test, now don't they?

 

You are entitled to an opinion but that does not make it fact. Its one thing to do your own car wrong but entirely another to give advice and tell others to do it wrong as well.

If you kept the pie hole shut and your ears open you could learn something but it is obvious you feel you know everything already.

 

Going to have to try a lot harder to upset me, it isnt my car being worked on and I have no dog in the fight.

Works fine until it doesnt, the tensioner and arm can only take just so much pounding until a failure occures.

Quite the opposite, I learn a great deal here and is my reason for reading this....to learn more regarding failures I might watch for. Now I understand the rusted and beat to hell tensioners I am seeing. You are right, many are doing it.

Lost me on the twist thing....

 

Oh no that would be you. well you and your ego. Your known for it throughout the various forums for you arrogance.
So if i did keep my "pie hole shut and your ears open", i will not learn any particular method from you because all you do is chuck in your sarcasm and then you are of.

 

First of all i am not trying to upset you at all. What i am saying is that the method i was taught works. And you will be waiting a long time for any failure to accrues because of it. And what the hell has this method got to do with rusty and beat to hell tensioners? But you know what, this is always going to be this way isn't it? The Fchat consultant and the home servicer. Always to pull other peoples methods but not so fast to post up there methods. I mean some one do a search and find any how to set the 355 tensioners, and you will not find one from the usual consultants.
And just because you dont do a method does not mean that it cant be done and not done by others. It was less than 5 years ago that some one mentioned that it was possible to change the 355 cam belts with the engine in on this forum. I remember reading that more than two "expert" consultants said it was imposable to do. Until some one posted up pictures of it being done. I am not saying that that method is right or wrong, i am using that as an example of there are other ways of doing certain jobs.
Regarding the auxiliary belt 90% twist test. There are very few who will go to the expense of buying a gauge specifically for one auxiliary belt. But you know what the method is, its a waste of my time explaining. Because its not in the Ferrari manual
But this will go on and on and on untill you get your way and score your points. So the floors yours.

 

Well zero, you are correct in one area. There are different ways to get equal results in "some" things, but this is not one of them. If you would read and listen to the experts here, who, incidentally, have 1000's of hours of experience working on Ferrari's, you might learn to respect their opinions just a little more, and stop being as arrogant and knowledgeable as you portray yourself to be.

Brian, Dave, and other tech's don't post here to impress anyone with their knowledge as you appear to do. They do it as a service to those who want to work on their cars knowing that they can depend on the correct information coming from them. With lots of incorrect info posted here at times, I know i can count on their opinions to be accurate. So when you post your "techniques" that work for you, fine, but let others know that it's just that.

 

I agree with rivee (John) and would respectfully ask that you do not go out of your way to annoy Ferrari licensed techs that take time out of their day to post on here.

 

You picked a poor example of an alternative method of doing something.

Certainly there are "work arounds" for many tasks but some corners shouldn't be cut.

 

You do have some points worthy of discussion so I will address them with more than a two word reply.

Agreed, yours (and based on the amount of tensioners I have seen of late, many others) adjustment techniques WILL work... for a while. The setting you are using is wrong and is very clearly sated in the manual. If something is written well enough to understand I do not waste my time reprinting it. There is an plethora of information missing and poorly translated where failures occur because of interpretation of the printed word. There I will spend the time to explain it, not where something is clearly stated and is in print. Failure to follow those procedures is either an indication of too lazy to look it up or not enough investment to purchase a manual, either way inexcusable in this field.

""Rusty and beat to hell"" because the setting you are using doesn't allow the correct clearances for the tensioner between the arm and the top and when the engine gets hot and expands the tensioner is bottomed out. Bottomed out means no more room to do what it was designed to do and then the belt is the elastic component. For this my friend I have had to send a great number of photo's to owner's explaining WHY the damned service just got REAL expensive...janitorial work involved, not a poor quality component needing replacement.

""Fchat consultant and the home servicer"" Would you prefer I only called this questionable advise to task from 7:30AM to 6:00PM Mon-Fri? I am not here to teach you how to do the job, I am here to learn myself and lend a hand where I feel someone might be going the wrong direction. For you the cart is no longer able to be seen by the horse...I see it often these days, ego gets in the way of a perfectly good learning experience most often caused by no need to post ones correct (I hope that is the case here) name.

You are incorrect regarding me being one that said "It cant be done with the engine in the car". It CAN be done! I run a "for profit" business fixing these cars....someone yells "HO" and I have my hand up high waving.... I am very busy and have come to the point in my business where I do not want work GENERATED by someone with a 4 foot spud bar, no good can come from it. A new owner that is dis-satisfied by the Ferrari experience is no good for anyone and doing things in this manner assures return work. I am a person that is fed up with things the way they are in this business today and I am finding solutions for problems that will last decades, not weeks. Its a "put up or shut up" situation for me and I am not willing to accept it as is so I am making my own parts where quality doesn't exist now. An owner that is hurt bad by a stupid expensive repair bill will in time realize the enjoyment factor of this 'passionate hobby' if reliability and perfection is once again established they will forget the bad experiance. Returning to the shop every second month will assure their stay in this field will be a short one, good for the tech/shop, bad for the marque and its following. If one GENERATES work by sub standard repair procedures you have won the battle but lost the war.

""its a waste of my time explaining."" Not hardly. I have a 25 year old daughter that works side by side with me that happens to be one of the best I have ever worked with in this field. She is the best not because of her experience in the field but because of her want to find perfection in every task she does and her love of the job.... she is the 'ShamWow' of technical data. Frankly stated she teaches me new and better techniques and procedures each and every week because ego doesn't get in her way to discuss a new idea or thought. We don't have fancy tile floors or a beautiful store front (read low overhead) so we can afford to spend time to perfect solutions and do not have to accept things as they are. By all means, I'm all ears when there is a better way.

""Because its not in the Ferrari manual:roll eyes"" Myself and other pro's here were paid to write corrections to the Ferrari manuals and to write up repair procedures for those not written out in the manuals. Ever wonder where the Ferrari TSB's come from? I have a notebook of rough drafts of these. Some are willing to accept things as it is, some keep searching to make things better for all. Only you can decide what category you fall in. Keep rolling your eyes looking to see what color the sky is in that pink fuzzy world or grab a task at hand and find a solution, I chose now its your turn. It happens about once a year where I feel I have had enough and will once again allow those that 'yell the loudest be the righest', guess its that time of year again.

"Pull the pin" has now taken on a second meaning...