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355 Top Replacement (and power top repair)

Discussion in '348/355' started by Boaf 32, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
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    Hello Fellow 355er's

    I am replacing my 1999 355 spider top as it has seen it's service life completed. RIP (Rest in Pieces).

    I was inspired by this thread. Only hope mine is a smooth as this. Will take pictures along the way and will also be re-installing the power function, the Previous Owner removed the main struts. I have them and will re-install and hope for the best.

    Naturally there will be questions along the way. First questions and pictures.
    1. What is this (Connector Picture 1) connection for? It is behind the driver's seat. Not sure it is Convertible top related.
    2. The two (2) cables that go through the roof line at each side are joined together in the second picture by a nut and bolt. The thread above indicates it is riveted. Should it be riveted or bolted (can't imagine how much fun it will be to get the nut and bolt back together :) ) Also concerned if the rivet will hold or not.
    I am sure there will be electrical issues as well, even though the receipts I have indicated the seat tensioners were serviced.

    Thanks all.

    Boaf 32

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  2. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
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    So got what I felt was the most fun part done first. Second half of the top is next.

    Anybody have any ideas how to get the lovely glue off (other than the razor blade and layers of skin) and clean the surface for the new top?

    Thanks.

    Boaf
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    I trust you marked where that header was installed prior to removal.

    While I have not replaced the 355 top, I have done multiple British cars and frame alignment is a key part to final operational success.
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    #4 Qavion, Jan 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    Do you mean the white, disconnected one? I recall I have a similar one on mine, I assumed it was an unused, alarm-related one.

    I should be doing my roof, I bought a canvas years ago, but I chickened out
    .
    I have Scotch 700 adhesive remover for taking the gum off my wiring harnesses prior to rewrapping them with Tesa tape. I'm wondering if it would work on the roof adhesive. It evaporates fairly quickly, and leaves no residue.

    https://www.labelpower.com.au//product/id/3m-700-adhesive-cleaner-and-solvent-pack/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItYa9wqrj5gIVzA0rCh17og_iEAYYAiABEgJX8fD_BwE

    It's expensive here, but probably a lot cheaper in the USA.

    I don't see much protective tape on your painwork yet ;) There are lots of hints on this in the other threads.
     
  5. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    Yes sir, thank you. It is a learning experience and I know there will be mistakes, but going very slow and not rushing it. Also lots of photos.
     
  6. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
    US
    Yep, coming up. Did the front and taping and card boarding before anything.

    Boaf
     
  7. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    Hello All,

    Update for the night. Only the 6 bolts on the rear bar to remove and top can be off. That's good news. Bad news, the wires have been cut on both sides and taped off (see attached). The hydraulic lines (2 on each side) are there and look OK. I also have the primary hydraulics, not sure if they are good.

    Will need to figure out where these wires go (there are 3 on each side). See Pictures. My fear is there must be a reason the top was deactivated.

    There is one module I have to look up (also pictured). It is missing one connection (I believe). If my brothers and sisters have insight to the wires, or the connection to the module port, I appreciate it. I will look up in the manual and see what I can find.

    Thanks,

    Boaf
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  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    Here's the wiring diagram. You may have to enlarge the image to pick up the wire colours. There wasn't enough room on the diagram to add wire colour codes.

    F355 (5.2) Spider Roof Wiring Diagram

    Let me know if you have any problems with wiring. I'll try and take some pictures (as long as I don't have to pull too many things apart).

    Oddly, I don't see any yellow-black and black-red wires in the diagram running in the same harness. There is a yellow-black wire on the left main actuator and a black-red wire on the solenoid on the roof system "F1" solenoid valve (i.e. the metal box shown in your last photo on the right hand side of the car). My car has a red wire and a black-red wire going the F1 solenoid valve. Note that I call a black wire with a red stripe (tracer) a "black-red" wire for simplicity.
     
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  9. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    where did you get that paint protection tape??
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    #10 Qavion, Jan 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
    Sorry, I should have said left hand side. So, those are indeed on the same side of the car, but I'm not sure if they run in the same harness.

    My wiring diagram is up to its 30th version, so I hope those with earlier versions have deleted them.

    Is it necessary to disassemble the hydraulic lines to remove the canvas or are you replacing some of them?
     
  11. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    Advanced Autoparts. Cheap stuff but I cover with cardboard while working in the area.
     
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  12. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    I will color code the wires on Friday and review your diagram. Maybe they connect to the primary hydraulic, but will review the diagram.

    My canvas should be removed by Friday if all goes well. I did not have to remove any hydraulics (unless the 4 that are disconnected would have impact removal in some way). Don't see how they would.

    I had not planned on any hydraulic replacement unless they seem old and brittle (or leak). Will inspect on Friday. Thanks for the diagram.

    Boaf
     
  13. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    Well found out where the wires go, right to the Primary Hydraulic. That is good, will need to splice (crap).

    I am missing a hose for the control module which I have ordered (the one in the picture above missing the hose).

    Attached are shot's of the hydraulics and parts I have. Looks like I will need to get some nylon washers, in addition to the hose. There are some bolts I will need to look at the diagrams to confirm where they go (the ones pictured in the lower left of the corner of the cardboard.

    If someone has a clear picture of the Primary hydraulics connected, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Boaf
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  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    Too easy, but I would find a way of checking the ends-of-travel internal switches on the actuators before reassembly. Switches S1~ S4 ...

    Roof hydraulic diagram


    Just buy some of those waterproof, pre-soldered splices and, for aesthetics, some heatshrink wrap (thermofit). It won't look too bad.


    The parts manual may be better for showing assembly (than photos), but I'll see what I can do. By the way, have you seen the Ratarossa roof video? Just skip through the unrequired bits.



    And when you've mastered reassembly, perhaps you can tell me how to stop my steel cables catching on the side brackets :D

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  15. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

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  16. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
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    Will do my best with the cables!
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    #17 Qavion, Jan 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
    Did you see this helpful coloured diagram on the forum by KrazyKarGuy?

    Top Hydraulics
     
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  18. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
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    I did indeed, thank you!
     
  19. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
    US
    Hello all,

    So may have hit my first snag with the re-install of Hydraulics. It's not with Hydraulics though, but alignment. Will work through it but wanted to post it for some quick thoughts.

    The Previous Owner as you know made it a manual top:
    • cut the electrical
    • removed the primary lifters
    • unscrewed the secondary bolts
    PO also removed the alignment pins and replaced them with a nut.

    So re-installed the pins (prior to the primary hydraulics) and the alignment of the forks are not quite right (see attached). I know there are adjustments and will try them after hydraulics are activated (fingers crossed).

    You can see the pin (Red Arrow) is 1/2 way on the fork. I think the slotted bracket (on the left side of the picture) just needs to be pivoted a bit more for pin alignment. Since hydraulics are not active yet, I am hopeful that when connected the cylinder will pull the pin up higher so the fork will align. Wondering if anyone else ran into this manual alignment issue?

    Thanks

    Boaf
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  20. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    That is a common problem and sucks to fix.

    Mine had (has) that issue and after 10 years of jerking around I think I know what causes it.

    It's not alignment of the attachment points, but the top itself gets bent.
    I suspect that when the hydraulics are used to lower the top and the second cross bar does not flip back (expired elastic straps), it gets stuck.
    Unaware owner drives the hydraulics harder and bends the top frame.
    Realizes it and flips the top bow back and lowers it.

    Now, when you go to put the top up, the pins miss the forks.

    Trust me, I have been in and around that hinge a million times, turned, twisted, adjusted and swore at it for months.

    My final success involved a tape measure, a grid begind the car and me bending the top frame back to something that is even front to back and right to left.

    Just an FYI.
     
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  21. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
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    Thanks.

    That may be the problem. I have:
    - all the hydraulics hooked up,
    - seats are still out but will go back in this weekend
    - Dash is out getting the F1 indicator LED fixed.

    Once those are in, I will add fluid (removed the reservoir and drained it). and see what happens. I did re-connect the switch and I do get beeps, and hear the electronics clicking so that is nice to know.

    I may be bending but would like to be able to have the auto top working.

    Boaf
     
  22. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    Hello all, updates:

    Hydraulics are in, fluid in and able to operate the primary hydraulics. Not fully opening and closing yet until I have the front rail re-installed (after glue removal). I do have one problem.

    The drivers side alignment pin (bolt that goes through the rail that attaches to the alignment pin) is bent. If you look at the picture above, it is the bolt that travels the slot. I am going to try and bend it. You see the bolt head is one of those 1/2 height bolts that never comes off without stripping it.

    Another issue (again, not everything is connected - cables, hood...) is that the primary hydraulics on the drivers side locks up at the top travel. I have to hammer and drift the top to a position so it will go down.

    Once the hood and cables are on, I will fully extend and re-assess any binding of the rails.

    Boaf.
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  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

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    Jeez... How do you bend a bolt like that. Through pure hydraulic pressure? And how will you un-bend it?

    By top of travel, do you mean the ram fully extended (i.e. roof fully down)? Does the pump motor stop at the (roof) fully down position on your car? The pump motor should be stopped automatically when (both?) primary actuator internal limit switches (S1 and S3) are activated plus one second. I don't know if this logic is designed to stop the rams fully extending (and possibly getting locked up).

    If not automatically stopping, perhaps one of the ram internal switches is faulty. Another possibility is that one of the over-pressure (unloading) valves is not operating. This might explain the bent pin.

    Could another possibility for this lockup be that the ram is bent?
     
  24. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Karting

    Aug 23, 2016
    216
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    Good questions.
    1. By top of travel, I mean the top is up (in the closed position). When in the closed position, that is when it was stuck on the driver's side. Interesting theory about the ram. I disconnected the ram by the "U" bolt at the bottom and still had to persuade it to break free.

    Without the drivers ram engaged, it moves up and down fairly easy. Will investigate that possibility tomorrow.

    If there is no canvas top on and no wires connected, should the top operate freely without binding? One additional note, I see the weather stripping rubbing on the sides when cycling the top, enough to cause a beep. I little push and it continues it's travel.

    2. Answer to the auto stop, I hadn't checked that yet but will.

    Will try and get a movie and pictures tomorrow.

    Thanks! I appreciate it.

    Boaf
     
  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2015
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    The hydraulics might offer some resistance. It doesn't seem to bind with manual conversions.



    I had a look at the driver's primary actuator on my car with the small lower cover off, but couldn't figure out what photos to take to help you. Also, with the canvas on, it's pretty hard to see what's going on at all times.

    Do you know what this allen-headed bolt does?

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    I don't know if it's some kind of tension device or perhaps to stop the bolt migrating (assuming there is a groove in the shank).

    I'm kind of embarrassed by how grubby this area looks :oops: If yours is the same, it's probably a good time to clean up this area (with the canvas still off)

    Not sure I understand. Do you mean the fault beep or the normal beep when you pull back the top part of the roof manually when lowering the roof?
     

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