355 valve guides | FerrariChat

355 valve guides

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by brian.s, Mar 23, 2005.

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  1. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    i have several people looking at purchasing/upgrading to 355, and they ask about the cost and likelyhood of needing a valve job with guides. What should we expect to allow for in $$ and possibilities here? I have said that even with my cyl leakage results, i have no way to determine the actual condition.
    Your informed inputs will be appreciated.

    Brian
     
  2. darth550

    darth550 Six Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 14, 2003
    61,183
    In front of you
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    BCHC
    $12,000 for valve and manifold replacement

    DL
     
  3. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
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    Brian
    That sounds cheap, 2 manifolds would be $6K+. I have suggested they figure 10K for the job, it will be a reasonable average to factor in any purchase.
     
  4. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    Just curious; if it's $12k, how much is labor and how much parts?

    Ken
     
  5. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,348
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    If I recall correctly the valves alone, if needed, run about $135 each and there are 40 of them. Ferrari does not reccomend grinding their valves either. I do not care for their "updated guides" as they do not have a positive stop built into them. They use a special tool to press them in and that tool determines the depth of the guide. I always made my own similar to the originals but in a different material. The last engine gasket kit I bought was $1200. Your parts bill could get crazy!
     
  6. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
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    Brian
    My thoughts exactly. What are the actual critical aspects/criteria to this problem? are some/all affected? Which years/#s?
    THis info needs to be available for PPIs and other checks.

    Thanks, Brian
     
  7. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,348
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    I have always used a labratory in Piscataway New Jersey to do oil analysis. They are an aircraft lab and would detect excess deposits of valve guide material in the motor oil. The periodic test is about $29.00 and well worth the money. All of my better clients gladly pay the fee for this service. Quaker State used to do this for their better clients for free. Aside from taking the engine down or having first hand knowledge of a car's history oil analysis is the only tool I know of to be sure. Send me a PM and I'll give you the companies name & address.
     
  8. Merdav

    Merdav Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2004
    980
    Excess deposits of valve guide material in the motor oil? What material would that be, and is a different material than all the other internal engine components that the oil pass's so you can tell WHAT may be breaking down?
    It sounds like a great idea if it can really be accurate.
     
  9. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,348
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    Valve guides are usually made from an aluminum silicon bronze or some sort of Berilium Copper! The lab usually recognizes the softer elements commonly used for valve guides and list the possibility of high valve guide wear in their report. I believe the updated Ferrari guides are from an iron alloy and are much harder. This alloy could be confused with piston rings. An accurate compression/leakdown test would tell you if the pistons rings are worn. A little bit of research would tell us the exact alloy used for valve guides when the engines were new.
     
  10. DIGMAN52

    DIGMAN52 F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 30, 2004
    4,108
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    Philip C
    I've done all the 355 fixes this last year, so here goes.
    Valve guides with 30k checkup $14k Including replacing 1 bad valve and cylinder liner.

    Exhaust headers removed, sent to QV and reinstalled $5,500

    Seat rails fix - $$1,500 per seat.

    Unfortunately the valve guide and exhaust repairs happend at separate times or I could have saved the $2,500 engine out costs. Norwoods, a Fchat sponsor did all the work as reasonably as they could.

    It's been a costly year, but 8,500 rpm through a tunnel eases the pain.
     

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