News

360/430 A arm bushes

Discussion in '360/430' started by rizzo308, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,039
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    Hi Guys,
    Is anyone changing out the A arm bushes or has recently replaced them and by chance still have there old set laying around. I will buy them from you top and bottom sets. PM me plz. TIA.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    John_K_348 likes this.
  2. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,298
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I have a spare set I'm using to take dimensions from, so I can recreate an alternative. If you just need the dims I can mic them up for you?
     
    Sky Hye likes this.
  3. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    I’d like some too!
     
  4. ur84wr

    ur84wr Karting

    Jan 6, 2015
    83
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Max
    Hi Rizzo,

    We have another thread on this going on as we're investigating getting them made from Delrin (which is Dupont's trade name for Acetal or Polyamide PA) or hard polyurethane. I used to work in the plastics industry so have contact who could machine these up for us VERY cheaply. Some dimensions are being taken for me and then i'll push on with getting them machined up.

    I'd be happy to get a number of them machined at once for all those interested.

    Cheers,
     
  5. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,039
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    Hi max
    I’m interested I have a upper and lower bush I have remove the steel housing from the rubber do u want me to send them to u for measurements.

    Cheers phil
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    John_K_348 likes this.
  6. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    Let me know if I can contribute in any way. Auto/aerospace engineer here
     
    whatheheck likes this.
  7. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,298
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    You probably already know that the Challenge bushes are Derlin. The original Ferrari inserts were machined with a high tolerance so race teams re-made them to lower tolerance for better handling.

    I believe Derlin is in the D80-85 range - does that sound about right?

    Today I will take some photos of the Challenge flamblocs. They still make use of the outer sleeve.
     
    whatheheck likes this.
  8. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,039
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    Hi Mark,
    I think the option would be to make the bushes and delete the steel sleeve same as pic but machined from Delrin. What are your thoughts mate. May try get Trev360 to chime in.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    John_K_348 and whatheheck like this.
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,298
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Personally I'd prefer the sleeve - it protects the alloy wishbone in the event of an issue and cuts down on the amount of flexible material.

    The ultimate in handling would be a spherical bearing enclosed by a pair of machined balance spacers, e.g.

    [​IMG]

    That really would be a no-compromise solution!

    The other approach I looked at is a cross-axis joint. These have a long service life (typically 60,000 miles in all weather if sized adequately) and offer low deflection with more comfort than a metal bearing.

    [​IMG]

    These too would require a balance spacer either side to keep them locked parallel to the wishbone.
     
    John_K_348 likes this.
  10. ur84wr

    ur84wr Karting

    Jan 6, 2015
    83
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Max
    Hi guys,

    Can we get hold of anyone with firsthand experience in the machined delrin bushes? 360trev or 430GT?

    Be helpful to understand if they ditched the outer sleeve and replaced the entire bush with Delrin.

    Phil, Thanks for the offer but I’m wary of taking measurements from worn/used parts. Better we get some new ones I’d think.

    WRT a steel spherical bearing or similar. I’d definitely be interested in these too. Seems like there’s a lot of interest generally in this project so getting some custom made probably wouldn’t be as outrageous as you’d think. Again I have connections who would know where to source custom bearings.

    Ideally we need some engineered drawings of the upper and lower flamblocs and upper and lower wishbones.

    I can get these components brought in by my mechanic when they return from holidays here in Aus in mid January and measure them myself but if anyone has original drawings or measurements from NEW parts then that would always help too.

    If someone has easy access to the part numbers and could help provide those for the upper and lower challenge flamblocs and upper and lower Scuderia flamblocs that’d be a great start.
     
  11. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,298
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Challenge flamblocs do have the outer sleeve.

    [​IMG]
     
    John_K_348 and tifosi101 like this.
  12. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    Hi Guys,

    I have a design and am getting ready to machine some. A few questions:

    I see that there are two part numbers, 209167 and 209166. If I'm not mistaken, there are four of each in the front and four of each in the rear. Do the rear wear out as well or shall I not worry about the rear when putting together a kit? I plan on going with delrin and Steel, since teflon is extremely expensive. How many people here would be interested in kits/flamblocks? This will help me get pricing and with enough deposits I can get the price down fairly low.

    Also, is there any interest in a bushing install/removal tool? A simple tool so that we wont require a press or is there already a product available for that?
     
  13. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,039
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    Awesome SH. Delrin is the way to go. I'm in for a set of 16 do we know roughly what the cost is to date.

    Cheers
     
    Sky Hye likes this.
  14. tifosi101

    tifosi101 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2013
    6
    France
    Hi guys, what a great initiative !

    What do you think of the the Energy Suspension solution ?
    https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/products/ferrari_various?scri=1,34
    If we look at the comment it is said :

    " BUON PRODOTTO "
    GOOD PRODUCT FOR FERRARI 360 AND 430. LITTLE MODIFY FOR PLACE BUT ALL IS OK. SUPER FAST SHIP TO ITALY, ONLY 4 DAYS AND SUPER PRICE
    verified_user Verified Buyer - roberto arnaldi - April 11, 2016. Energy Suspension 13.3101 - 5 out of 5

    That means it works ?! o_O
     
    Sky Hye likes this.
  15. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    Seems like its poly so eventually it wears but more importantly poly requires lubrication and is softer. Also looks like it's just the shell and no shaft. It may work but I would not try a generic one on my scud.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    1,598
    Uk
    Some of these nylon bushes are impregnated with a lubricant, so might be worth a look
     
  17. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    the one i designed uses a new delrin which is self lubricating. basically closest to teflon. I guess the question that remains is if people prefer stiff or pliable. I can make a poly version too if theres a demand.
     
  18. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    It seems I can make the flamblocs work with the Poly bushings. I will get some quotes now
     
  19. rizzo308

    rizzo308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,039
    Perth, Australia
    Full Name:
    riggio
    I’m for Delrin bushes. I’m prepared to sacrifice wee bit of comfort for performance.
     
  20. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,298
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I'm certainly in for that depending on the shore hardness.
     
  21. ur84wr

    ur84wr Karting

    Jan 6, 2015
    83
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Max
    Is interesting possible to do a ~90 shore poly you think? We could do a 50 shore poly but then that’s close to a delrin with the downsides of probably squeaking. Iam concerned that acetal will be too harsh on Sydney’s woefully bad roads. That being said, if there were acetal bushes available I’d give them a shot.

    Are you intending on machining the steel sleeve and then various polymer inserts?

    Good work on getting it together. You’re a few months ahead of me but this was my plan also.
     
    Sky Hye likes this.
  22. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,298
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
  23. Sky Hye

    Sky Hye Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 2, 2017
    376
    SoCal
    I had no clue it was so darn complex! In the engineering world less is more but I will try to think why they need such complexity... I am wondering if the left and right shafts are threaded together or pressed. Was this off the Aldous site?
     
  24. ur84wr

    ur84wr Karting

    Jan 6, 2015
    83
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Max
    Yeah you’re not wrong re the unnecessary complexity. I suspect this is why the sleeve was binned by some and the bush expanded to replace it,

    That drawing is good but unfortunately insufficient to have custom bushes made as it’s missing many key dimensions from the od and id of the bush and doesn’t discern between the bush, shaft and sleeve dimensions.
     
  25. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 29, 2009
    11,252
    Honolulu
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Don't skimp on materials either. If you like teflon better that is what you should use.
    https://www.mcmaster.com/

    search teflon bar or delrin bar
     

Share This Page