360 cambelt change - diy | FerrariChat

360 cambelt change - diy

Discussion in '360/430' started by 900ssDuke, Jun 4, 2010.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. 900ssDuke

    900ssDuke Karting

    Sep 12, 2007
    214
    UK
    My friend is a factory trained Mercedes mechanic and we are going to have a preliminary review of my 360 spider in a few days time to see if we are going to do the cambelt change and ancilliaries ourselves. I cant find a thread from anyone that has done this themselves. Has anyone that has done this got any tips.
    regards
     
  2. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    I think if you do a search using "timing belt" as the keyword there are several threads with pictures.

    You might also find some interesting info by searching "variator" and "tensioners".
     
  3. Donie

    Donie Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2006
    346
    Spain/Ireland
    900ssDUKE


    I feel sure there's a thread somewhere on this subject, but in any case remove the two seats and access the belts from the panels behind each seat.
     
  4. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    First of all you need To get the manual.
    If your friend is a mechanic it will be easy for him do to the job with the manual. Get a belt tensioner meter.
     
  5. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    Also, I was told you need to be prepared to remove and reinstall the folding top assembly on a spider, as well as remove the seats. It's not light, so much easier if you have some kind of hoist. A coupe is easier, as the engine compartment is directly behind the seats.

    That said, I have to wonder why wouldn't there be access to the engine w/o removing the top so long as the top was up? I guess I need to go read the service manual.
     
  6. james patterson

    james patterson Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 8, 2003
    417
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    James Patterson
    No need to pull the top to do the belt change, access panel is the same on coupe and spider.
     
  7. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

    May 16, 2007
    5,083
    Missouri
    A recent Forza magazine had an article on a 360 service with several pictures.
     
  8. Donie

    Donie Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2006
    346
    Spain/Ireland
    Absolutely no need to remove the soft top assembly on a spider (big enough job) to do the belts from within the car, and with the seats removed, and the top down, you have great freedom of movement.
     
  9. Sellnit

    Sellnit Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2010
    975
    Cincinnati
    Full Name:
    James
    This was a great article, as a newbie it helped me just understand the car better.
     
  10. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    It will be great if some one scan that article and share it for those who need it. I tried to get that specific issue but it take 8 weeks to get delivered.
     
  11. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
    Owner Regional Sponsor

    Jan 29, 2010
    1,647
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Ferrarifobs.com
    I'd love to see a scan of that too.
     
  12. Donie

    Donie Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2006
    346
    Spain/Ireland
  13. AndersJL

    AndersJL Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2001
    376
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    AL
    Anybody out there that could scan and email (PM me) / post the article, please.
    Would really like to read this.
    Kind regards Anders
     
  14. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

    Sep 25, 2006
    3,737
    Txass
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I don't blame you, really.

    They charge a fortune for the service. I plan to do my next belt change by myself and post detailed pictures.
     
  15. 900ssDuke

    900ssDuke Karting

    Sep 12, 2007
    214
    UK
    Job done.
    It was a fairly easy task, certainly a lot less difficult than I had imagined. I got a friend to help me, he's not worked on a Ferrari before but services every other make.

    Main points.

    If you have access to a car lift to get under the car the job is a whole lot easier. It would have been a struggle otherwise.

    My car is a 360 spider. With the roof down, the seats did not have to come out, just disconnect the seatbelt and put them right forward. There are screws in the bottom of the rear shelf key holder (or whatever its called. Take them out, remove the drawer and access the 4 bolts that retain the leather trim.) This allows access to the access hatch. The carpet on the bulkhead takes a bit of tugging to get off.

    With the access hatch off, there is loads of room. Remove the ancilliary belts cover (top half from the access hatch, bottom half from below the car and remove the ancilliary belts and cam covers. We did not need to remove the coolant pipework as detailed in the manual to get the rh cam cover off, I did not intend changing the coolant at this time. Probably easier to remove the pipework and no big deal to change the coolant.

    We marked up the timing on the pulleys, locked the cam pulleys with a vice grip as per the manual and removed the belts. To get the main pulley off, its easier done from under the car as it took a bit of effort. We removed a cover opposite the pulley (still dont know what it does) to allow the socket and ratchet bar onto it. We removed the cam tensioners and used a vice to push them back in against the spring and dropped a small drill bit through the hole to retain it in position. Changed out the tensioner bearing for the Hill Engineering replacements I had bought, slipped on the new belts, fitted back on the tensioner bearings and adjusted the belt tension. Refitting the tensioner is a bit fiddly but ok. To adjust the tension, a VW bearing tensioner tool fitted. When at the correct tension, the drill bit slipped in and out of the tensioner spring retainer. (This is detailed on another thread). Turn the engine over by hand a few revs and check everything is ok.


    Refitted the main pulley, cam covers, ancilliary belts, started the car. Alls well. Refitted the ancilliary belt cover.
    Then cracked on with oil and filter change, gearbox oil, changed clutch / brake fluid etc. Checked brake pads, adjusted hand brake. Changed air filters and pollen filter.

    Up until today, the car had a full Ferrari service history. I examined the old cam belts for wear, and there was slight cracking at the bottom of the teeth if I bent them back, the new belts did not exhibit this. They were perfectably serviceable, Im just saying there was a difference. These belts were recorded as changed 3 years ago or 8k miles ago. I have my doubts. The Ferrari cam tensioner bearings were spot on, I assume they were 6 years old and 13k miles. All the other belts were in first class condition.

    Things I did not do. This car is a keeper, I have no intention of selling it. I love it. I am fairly confident around mechanical equipment, thats how I make a living. Everyone has to make decisions based on their own level of experience and their view on risk. Here's mine.

    I did not change out the exh variators. My car was build post recall. If they were that crap, we would hear of more failures.

    I did not change the camshaft end seals. I took the view not to fix something that is not broke. When I got in there, I would have changed them out if I had got them in the service kit. They were not leaking as such, but the area around here was not as clean as the rest of the engine. Not wet or anything that visible, just not as clean suggesting there had been a slight mist at some time. I think it will be ok untill the next belt change, but I could get caught out. I wont omit this again.

    I did not time the exhaust variators by measuring the cams. I have read threads suggesting that this needs to be done. I take the view that this is an engine, like lots of other brands of engines. Others dont get the variators timed on the cams. I understand the arguments but they dont light me up. Each to their own.

    I did not change the plugs. In retrospect, I should have bought plugs and stuck them in while I was at it.

    So what are my lasting impressions.

    It takes longer to access the cam belts and box everything up again than it does to change them out. It took an easy 4 hours to have the car restarted after changing the belts, and another easy 4 hours to perform all the other service items and box it all back together.

    Service kit and pollen filter came to £176.29, Hill Engineering Tensioner bearings came to £295.81. 8 hours labour plus fluids. I was quoted £1400 from a dealer and £1250 from an independent, but Im sure they would not have used the Hill bearings.

    I need to suss out the expected life duration for the Hill Bearing for next time, Capristo do them for half the price.

    I was fortunate that my friend who has never previously worked on a Ferrari took me through this. I would have no hesitation in taking it on myself next time. Had I not had his guidance, it would have taken me perhaps an additonal 4 hours by the time I had sussed it all out.

    Hey, its only a car.

    Next project, clutch.
     
  16. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    Great job man!!
    Next time I do mine I will take pictures!
    I'm happy to see another chat fellows that love the DIY on their Ferrari!
    Thanks for sharing it.
     
  17. chrmer3

    chrmer3 Formula 3

    May 19, 2006
    1,719
    USSA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I am toying with the idea of doing this myself also.. my son-in-law owns a garage so I would have him to assist. Rumor has it the frequency tensioner (or whatever its called) is only tool I would need.

    Only thing stopping me is if I sell down the road, my 360 has perfect service history from day 1 through a Ferrari dealer... its my only hesitation from doing myself...
     
  18. 900ssDuke

    900ssDuke Karting

    Sep 12, 2007
    214
    UK
    If he has a garage he probably has a frequency tension meter. This is used on other makes too. The bearing tensioner temporary locking pin gives a very good indication of where you are at on tension.
     
  19. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Supposedly if you adjust the tension just right where the "drill bit, Allen key" starts to free up or "drop" and then ck the tension the tension Hz range is dead on.

    I think Ferrari feels the use of the tension gauge is there to have additional reference to double ck the tension.

    At least that's from my personal experience. I tested the tension using a Clavis tension gauge after tensioning the belt to the "allen key drop" method and the tension has always been right at the 190-220 Hz range.
     
  20. FerrariJones

    FerrariJones Karting

    Nov 1, 2004
    57
    Seattle
    I would not buy a car from a DIY history vs. a dealer serviced vehicle. Proper history on a Ferrari is worth a lot to the discerning buyer and can be the difference in prices at the end of the day.

    Like the gentelman who posted the thread, it was a car he doesn't plan on getting rid of taking that argument out...
     
  21. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    But if something goes wrong with the Allen key drop and you don't have the the meter at that moment?
    I think that we always has to do a double check on that job, we are talking about the timing of the car! One mistake and the results will be a disaster!!
    My two cents.
     
  22. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    #22 mrpcar, Jun 23, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
    At the current selling price of a used 360 it really doesn't matter anymore. They are pretty much worthless compared to what they used to sell for.
     
  23. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    David, of course having the tension gauge on hand is really helpful too. I'll have to say that's one of the most expensive piece of tool I have ever bought (Not counting my TIG welder, and my lift) and I said it is worth every penny.
     
  24. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    Who cares about selling the car when you don't enjoy it when you had it? I don't mind to loose sone bucks on selling the car. When you find the right buyer of the car and you proof that the car is in good conditions that person will call back.
     
  25. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
    2,619
    PR
    Full Name:
    David
    Totally agree with you. I bought mine from Rob here at the adds for $200! Maybe Rob can share where he bought it from, maybe for a littler more. I think it was from Germany.
     

Share This Page