360 Challenge Fuel Gauge | FerrariChat

360 Challenge Fuel Gauge

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by ar4me, Jan 8, 2012.

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  1. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    I am a new owner of 360 challenge race car. The car is in excellent shape. Coming from my 3 pedal 360 Modena it takes a little getting used to the F1, but I'm sure I will appreciate it on track. I hope it is as enjoyable on track as my Alfa race car.

    Here is my question: The car has been maintained most of its life by a Ferrari mechanic (used to be a challenge mechanic at one of the active dealerships), and he explained that the fuel gauge has never worked and he suspects they never did on the LCD display of the 360 challenge cars. They used a cumbersome (to me) method of draining the fuel after every session (via the quick disconnect on the right side coming out of the pump), and then refill 7-8 gallons for 30 min sessions. I have a hard time believing that the fuel gauge (just showing 0) on the display is not supposed to work. Before starting chasing a defect level sender or the like, I figured I would ask some of the 360 Challenge owners on here, whether your fuel gauges work? I plan to also run some endurance races with the car, and a fuel gauge would be very helpful.

    Any pointers to workshop manuals for the 360 Challenge?

    Thanks,
    Jes
     
  2. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
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    Jes
    #2 ar4me, Jan 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The parts diagram for the 360 Challenge does show a level sender - #3 in picture below (in the left tank - same part as the Modena and spider). However, can a 360 Challenge owner confirm they have a working fuel level gauge on the LCD display?
    Thanks,
    Jes
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  3. UAS

    UAS Formula 3
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    Jul 2, 2008
    1,193
    Glen Cove, NY
    We currently own 6 360 challenge cars, and have supported dozens more at the track. Not one of these cars' fuel guage accurately shows proper fuel level. The guage should read something, however it is most likely inaccurate. Supposedly these cars had this problem new from the factory. 430's on the other hand usually always show accurate readings.
     
  4. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
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    Jes
    Thanks! - that is useful information.
     
  5. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    The impedance between pin 1 and 2 on the left connector (fuel level sender) on the left fuel cell reads infinite with almost empty tank and also after adding a few gallons. I will go ahead and replace the fuel level sender according to RayJohns excellent write-up:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136116691&postcount=22
    Seems worth the $115 for a new sender from Ricambi and a few hours.
    Jes
     
  6. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,804
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    The fuel gauge in my 355 is also broken with what appears to be multiple faults. The first thing we noticed is that the voltage being read at the gauge was weak, as though something was tapped into the wires and interrupting the signal. The second issue is that the Ohm readings at the sender had a hard time settling in. They would zoom up and down on the meter even though the car was stationary we waited a long time for things to settle.

    Instead of trying to fix the factory gauge, this weekends project is to install a new fuel sender and then create a new circuit that is directly wired into an Ohm to Volt adapter (a custom BMW part from BimmerWorld) and then into my AIM dash display. The cool thing is that I should be able to get the display to read in gallons remaining! That should allow me to very accurately measure fuel consumption on track and not carry so much reserve fuel as we often do when we are just guessing as fuel level.
     
  7. UAS

    UAS Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jul 2, 2008
    1,193
    Glen Cove, NY
    With that type of reading, you can win bets on your exact weight through the scales after the race
     
  8. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
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    Jes
    #8 ar4me, Jan 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Today a friend and I took the left fuel tank apart to put in the new fuel level sender that I picked up Friday. The fuel cell in the Challenge car must be quite a bit different inside compared to the street car (based on the description in the link above). The Challenge cell does not have a 1" slot for the float to ride in.

    When I disassembled the top of the cell to pull the pump assembled with the level sender out, I found that the cell was filled with foam to limit fuel slushing. It was also clear it was not factory as the pieces were cut quite rough and had hand writing in English to identify location. It was also clear there was no way to pull the fuel pump assembly without pulling the foam. At that point I had to decide how important a working fuel gauge is to me, as I was certain I would not be able to insert the foam without the foam fouling the arm of the level sender. Well, I need a fuel level gauge, however inaccurate. So, the tedious task of pulling the foam through the opening with the pump assembly still partially installed began. With the foam out, it was relatively easy to pull the pump assembly. It was also clear that someone in the past had consciously sacrificed the fuel level gauge in the interest of having the foam - the arm and dial of the fuel level sender had been cleanly removed from the body of the level sender (and were not at the bottom of the cell) - all shown in the picture below.

    With the assembly out, the new level sender was easily installed, and I thought it would be a breeze to complete. Boy, was I wrong... It was a nightmare to get the pump assembly aligned with the seat and gasket at the bottom and get free movement of the float. This was mainly because of poor access preventing a straight insertion of the pump assembly. Eventually, it went in and back together correctly, but the float cannot go all the way to the bottom - it hits and rests on the back of the cell when it is down to 5 liter on the gauge. I wonder if this is because the updated 360 sender was never really targeting the Challenge cars. However, the fuel level gauge now works, with the caveat of realizing that when the gauge hits 5 liters, there is probably 2-3 gallons left.

    Some pictures below showing:
    1. Pump assembly and all the foam
    2. The amputated old sender
    3. The new sender installed
    4. My friend trying, trying, trying to get the pump assembly aligned - what a bear...

    Victory at the end with a working fuel gauge, but no foam in cell... :( Just not compatible with the float. The whole thing took a little less than 5h... yikes. It would be a lot easier with the left fuel cell out of the car, but that did not look like a time efficient route as it appeared to require A LOT of disassembly and potentially still foul on the rear subframe, headers, etc.

    Jes
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