360 Challenge - Hasn’t been started in 5 years - Startup suggestions? | FerrariChat

360 Challenge - Hasn’t been started in 5 years - Startup suggestions?

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by Trackspec_360, Mar 15, 2023.

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  1. Trackspec_360

    Trackspec_360 Rookie

    Dec 10, 2022
    10
    Hey guys, long time fan and finally a 360 owner as of this year. I loved my road car so much, I just picked up a challenge race car to mod and track. We are a race/cage shop but limited experience with the 360 engine.

    Here’s the problem. Car has been sitting for at least 5 years without being started or moved. The owner lost interest in the car and life happens and here we are. My biggest concerns are:
    - Startup procedure: Is there a better way to prime the oiling system other than pulling the fuel pump fuse and cranking it over to build pressure?
    - Timing belts and bearings: any concerns with first startup with old belts? I plan on changing them out right away but wanted to get the car started to make it moveable.
    - Fluids- plan on doing full fluid flush after first start.
    - Fuel cells: Will drain and remove foam before first start.

    Again, I just want to get the motor to fire so I can move it around the shop but I’m interested in others experience on a long term no start situation like this for things to look out for.

    I really appreciate the help in advance.
     
  2. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Jan 2, 2006
    8,064
    Wash DC area
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Thread moved to proper section, should get some very helpful suggestions here
     
    Trackspec_360 likes this.
  3. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 12, 2017
    425
    Put it on wheel dollies until the t-belts are done. No sense risking the (very expensive) motor for no reason. You also will want to get the fuel cell cleaned out and the fluids replaced before firing the motor.

    Do t-belts and all fluids, then pull the fuel pump fuse, crank to build oil pressure, reinstall fuse, good to go.
     
  4. Trackspec_360

    Trackspec_360 Rookie

    Dec 10, 2022
    10
    thanks for the reply and advice! I’ll swap belts and tensioners before firing and go from there. If anyone else has any other advice let me know. I’ll post a video once fired up and hopefully running.
     
    WillskiGT likes this.
  5. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    #5 360trev, Mar 16, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
    Depends on how far you wish to go but to re-commission it to race again I wouldn't skimp as it just means you'll be kicking the can down the road..

    After the usual fluids, engine oil/oil filter and gearbox filter clean up and inspection, coolant, etc, definitely do the belts and pulleys. as they are the weak link after all that time and absolutely no point in risking a belt failure. You can get almost all the parts for maintenance direct from Bosch suppliers (absolutely no need to go to Ferrari for the same parts) and they will be considerably less expensive but just take the time to ensure you not buying cheap fake cloned parts. Make sure you can trust your supplier.

    Deferred Maintenance
    I'd also recommend (read as correcting the 'deferred maintenance') to replace several critical sensors/components which are consumable service items anyway ;
    1. Bosch Primary O2 sensors (both banks, x2) - used to adapt fuel trims
    2. Bosch Coil Packs (all x8) - to ensure optimum spark
    3. Spark Plugs (all x8) - ditto
    4. Bosch Air Flow Meters (x2) - to accurately read air to ensure accurate fuel adaption

    Fueling
    Since they are a well known weak spot I'd 100% replace both Bosch fuel pumps, before you begin to have trouble with them (!), drain the tanks and refill with fresh fuel (the octane of the old stuff will be horrible and could cause knock).

    I actually just helped a guy a few weeks ago to re-commission a 360 that hadn't been started in OVER a decade due to a financial dispute and these cheap pumps hideously cheap plastic internals had completely disintegrated internally in that time. If you want to ensure perfect optimum fueling which is kind of important in a race car I would also send off the fuel injectors to be electro-sonically cleaned and spray pattern tested.

    Connect a fuel pressure tester to the fuel rail (preset to 3.6 bar fuel pressure in the regulator within the fuel pumps and measures a bit less at the rail) and measure the pressure is good - which it should be if you've replaced the pumps. If you have any issues with the immobilizer going bad I can help you eliminate this on the 360 challenge (there are no fobs anyway!) but they are still known to go bad from time to time and inhibit the car from even cranking. You can always pm on this one. Rotate the engine by hand or crank it without the coils connected before first start and also check for spark at the coils.

    Gasket Leaks
    Smoke test the exhaust headers and intake system for any gasket leaks too as they may also need to be changed

    Suspension & Bushes
    Replace the engine and gearbox mounts. (cheap parts)

    The challenge cars tended to replace their suspension flanbloc bushes every season until they swapped over to the Delrin bushes, check if it was done if not swap them. Also check for play in the ball joints, steering track rod ends and arbs.

    Do a full geo and ride height reset (ideally use a set of corner weight scales and take compression of arb's with the adjustable drop links).

    Brakes and Tires
    Brake fluid also a must after all this time and goes without saying new slicks and checking the operation of the brake pistons (that they are moving freely and not seized).

    These parts will ensure that your fueling and ignition are all up to scratch, your braking system is good and your handling is to spec.

    Optional Upgrades
    If he wants to modernize how it drives I'd recommend a CS TCU and upgraded Challenge firmware (which I can also help with) as this will improve both the shifting but also reduce clutch wear and greatly improve application of torque. I've done a few Challenge cars, both 360's and F430's and they respond extremely well to some well balanced fettling. Especially notable are my instant torque patches. On the F430 Challenge around Silverstone circuit in the UK a few weeks ago the racing driver said it shaved off more than a second per lap (which is huge in racing) and his almost stock challenge was competing with the Michelotto 430 GT3's ! High praise indeed :)

    GOOD LUCK!
     
  6. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,070
    Fuel cells, pumps and foam are going to be trashed. I would look at the production dates of the cells. plus all the other recommendations above.
     
  7. Trackspec_360

    Trackspec_360 Rookie

    Dec 10, 2022
    10
    Just want to make sure before I go nuts, I started up the 360 challenge project after sitting for 10 years. Cranked with no pump power, saw 1-2 oil pressure on the dash. Fired it up, saw 6-8 oil pressure. The golden question...I cannot tell if these cars are bar or PSI? PSI, I have issues. Bar, I m good. Hope its the better one! USA car, but could have been imported at some point. Thanks for your help.

    Repost from another thread I started in case one of the responders here knows. Thanks again.
     

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