Hey Dan, Yes, it was a US car. I know the answers are less than definitive, but I left there feeling encouraged. He seemed to be an honest and knowledgeable "shoot from the hip" kind of guy. He was also full of praise for the Gallardos next door, amazed at their technological content. Is your Stradale is a February build, same as mine?
Mine's a March build should get it sometime in April hopefully. I'm trying to get them to accept an Alcatara rather than leather steering wheel order - not confirmed yet...
The first batch of cars sent out "did not" have cats?? That statement sounds "very incorrect" from someone who should know better!
First batch meaning initial press and show cars. I assume the Stradale uses larger cats (they sure look larger) and they were not ready for intro.
>>>>he told me that the first batch of cars sent out in Europe had no cats at all, so that accounts for the incredible volume of some of the clips we have heard and the complaints from some magazines Well, well no cats and I assume specific ECUs optimized for the no cat version and I assume all cars for the press - interestingly the there are 360 cat part numbers for no cat versions of the car dummies??? >>>>He didn't know for sure if the Europe cars had pre-cats or not The EU CS manifold part numbers are the same as the EU 360 M ones, while the cat part numbers are different. The 360 M EU version has no pre-cats (in the manifolds) while the US version has. My CS (US) has three oxygen sensors one in the manifold, one in front of the cat, and one behind the cat if there is a cat in the manifold there has to be an oxygen sensor before it. All which makes me conclude that the CS EU has no cats in the manifold, i.e. no pre-cats while the CS US has. If an owner in the EU could validate if there is a/ or is no oxygen sensor sticking out of the manifold (header) we can put this discussion to rest (note aside the cat has two sensors one in the middle and one at the end; just for completeness) the mainfold sensor can not be overlooked it sticks out to the side and has a cable attached. On the good news side the CS has different cats and I assume they are more free-flow. >>>As for the US cars being held in customs, he said the first few cars were fitted with taller airbox covers for better flow and either new or recalibrated (can't remember) MAF sensors. Indeed the part numbers for the Air Flow Sensor of the CS is different from the Modena - it is a common optimization to upgrade to less restrictive sensors and I believe to recall that I read a discussion about this optimization for the CS. Now this is interesting since this could be some nice explanation for the lack of performance of my CS (one of the first few in the US) on the dyno if it would have the wrong sensor (the Modena one) that would screw things up for sure shh another thing to check Anyhow thanks for posting the info Paul - helpful!
Thomas, Where are you getting all this part number info from? >>>>interestingly the there are 360 cat part numbers for no cat versions of the car dummies???<<<< Huh? Could you clarify that? Paul
>>part number info from ... I have looked at the parts manuals unfortunately EU only for the CS >>Could you clarify that it says for the Modena: 180082 R.H. Catalyst - Valid for not catalyzed cars - not for USA, CDN and AUS - there have been also versions for catalyzed cars / not USA ... and for USA, CDN, ... that is all I know
Hello I have a stradale on order. I was wondering if your dealer accepted your request for an alcantara steering wheel.
That reminds me. We had the Tubi GT Exhaust for the Stradale weighed. In it's packaging: Muffler: 7.8kg End tips: 2.5kg Pretty light no?
17.2lb and 5.5lb... pretty light... but not sure it'll be lighter than the stock Stradale exhaust. Anyone know what it weighs yet?
Brian - I'm guessing it will be lighter than stock what with the tubi muffler being smaller and there being no valves etc... but how MUCH lighter? That's what's important. Thomas -you weighed your stock muffler yet? P.S. I have NOT seen a lamda sensor sticking out of the manifold on a CS - but I've only had a brief look - I could well be wrong. (but this is a Euro spec). Here's the really interesting bit... I bet there is an unofficial Ferrari part number for the ECU optimised to run with the de-cat setup that the MEGA LOUD press cars were running?
And another - muffler measures 9" across - air filter is there for perspective... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Single End Tip Configuration - You can order with two though, if you want. Image Unavailable, Please Login
No I did not weighed the muffler - I still believe that the best solution is to keep the current by-pass but to improve flow, i.e. larger cats with 100 cells and larger pipes & by-pass valves - since the silencer is by-passed in my driving (race mode & > 3500RPM) most of the time I don't care about it so much No lambda sensors in the manifolds no pre-cat for EU cars - same as for the Modena if you really want to go for the lowest possible weight for track days here is a simple DIY: - the by-pass valves are open by default so if you disconnect the vacuum lines that control the valves the by-pass is constantly open - plug the vacuum lines in the same way as the dealer does for the Tubi installation - remove silencer completely and cover the connections
Alcantara steering wheels look good but I have one in my BMW CSL. My opinion is that the standard wheel in the 360CS is far better than an alcantara wheel unless you want to wear gloves the whole time or like a wheel to slide through your hands - there is, surprisingly, less grip on an alcantara wheel than there is on the 360CS wheel. I would however have an alcantara wheel over the standard 360 wheel
.................Stock CS......Tubi CS.......Capristo CS....Modena Silencer:.....25.4 lb..........17.2lb.........?..................? End-pipes:..10.2 lb............5.5lb.........?..................? ----------------------------------------------------------- Exhaust:.....35.6 lb..........22.7lb.........??................?? Tube Ø:......59mm............?...............??.................? Does someone know the Modena tube size? I want to determine if F has increased the size for the CS to cope with the additional flow requirements. Otherweise there might be room for optimization (after the cats are converted to 100 cells and are enlarged).
Thomas: Do you have any info regarding HP numbers when switching to either of these exhausts? It looks like one could save some weight with the Tubi (12.9 lbs savings) has anyone heard the exhaust of either of the above exhausts? PS Thomas, thank you for your pursuit in finding the most HP for the Stradale and sharing your info!! I am awaiting my delivery in April and your information is very useful for I have a hard time leaving well enough alone
my personal opinion is that both the Tubi and Capristo exhaust for the CS will either have no or a minimal negative effect on max. HP. Both designs route all exhaust through the muffler in order to be able to tune the sound compared to the brutal by-pass of the CS (note that the CS by-pass housing is enlarged to maintain flow!). My conclusion is that both aftermarket designs will decrease flow (additional pipes & routing and the muffler itself), i.e. increase backpressure in the exhaust system. Happy to be convinced otherwise especially with dyno charts. I bought a used CS exhaust (the one pictured) to evaluate several modifications: - coating of the pipes and silencer underside to reduce heat dissipation One of the areas to go after is the heat around the airbox and gas tank. The airbox is in the worst possible spot and reducing radiant as well as convection heat from the exaust seems to be worthwhile. - replacement of the silence with lighter version The CS by-pass valve and silencer piping are optimal for my mixed street/track use I can not see how to improve it in normal mode it allows me to drive around with reasonable sound level (muffled by the silencer), while in race mode above 3000pm I have no silencer at all in the exhaust pipe. Now if I would have a silencer with the weight of the Tubi CS connected to the stock piping with its bypass valve heaven. This is very doable I simply have to find the right company to do it. So I am looking for a company that can take the stock silencer and can produce a compatible lighter silencer that can be plugged into the stock piping. - increase of the pipe size (new design) to increase exhaust flow The exhaust system with the exception of the silencer and by-pass section has not changed between Modena and CS. The CS is supposed to produce more HP and therefore has higher flow requirements. My reasoning is that by increasing the flow capacity of cat and piping (without killing gas velocity) we might see an increase in HP. I am working through the details at the moment. Note that the same observation holds true for the air intake section up to the manifolds - parts have not changed with the exception of the carbon filter covers. I assume there is room for improvement.
I would assume the opposite... that Ferrari is not going to waste horsepower due to some tubing being too small for the engine... thus, the 360 Modena's intake and exhaust tubing was larger than necessary to support the required flow... and when they upped the horsepower 9-25hp, the flow requirements still did not reach the capacity of the existing intake and exhaust tubing. Why do I assume that? Given the expense they went through to eek out 9-25hp more, there's no way they wouldn't spend cheap money on tubing to get a few more hp!! No way. Now, adding ugly heat shielding to get a few extra hp... that they may not do, given most of their customers would prefer a pretty engine bay to those few hp. Also, adding a fuel cooler running off the AC... I could see where they might not go that route. But then again, maybe I'm overestimating the smarts of Ferrari engineers. Brian
Then again, a bit more optimistically, perhaps the cost of design and re-tooling to construct different tubing for a mere 500 cars simply did not make sense... even if it would have added a few hp... afterall, they just made up the HP number anyway... either way they'd have said 425hp! Hmm, was that more optimistic or more pessimistic?
