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Discussion in '360/430' started by FerrariFR33458, Feb 14, 2019.
Another daddy’s boy with money reviewing cars...
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That video about sums it up tho'. Bravo.
Nice video! Thanks for posting. James makes pretty good videos imo. One of the better car YT’ers.
In case anyone is wondering, he’s driving this car in the video
Just watched it, great video IMO.
Words cannot explain how much I love the Challenge Stradale, the best NA V8 special Ferrari for me. The looks (that stance), sound, rawness...its just perfect. This car will go down in history as one of the best from Ferrari IMO.
What year does the CS value eclipse that of the Speciale ? It’s inevitable.
I think the only thing holding the CS back from elite status is that it only has 25 more BHP and really isn't that different from the Modena. Ferrari should have went a bit further with the engine (in my opinion obviously). It is, and always will be, the star of any gathering. I see it at almost any cars and coffee here in California. New Lambos, new Ferraris, whatever... they all still bow to this car when it shows up. Probably always will. It is incredible. The new stuff just feels video game cheap and sadly, the new stuff just feels like a throw away digital watch. Do a manual conversion on a CS and I really don't see why you would need another modern era Ferrari.
Agreed. When new Super cars are staring to anticipate your next move for you electronically, I have no interest. The CS isn’t about horesepwer. Rather the sum of its parts and the dynamic this creates. Very different from a Modena.
You dont need more horsepower, you simply need a better power to weight ratio. My car has same power to weight as the 458 yet no where near same engine output.
Ferrari could have saved twice the weight they did and my own car is testament to this as I've actually done it. If they'd dug a bit deeper into the parts bin from the Challenge race cars (which I did) they could have saved a lot more weight. I guess they didn't really realize the significance of what they where creating and actually really built it to get rid of warehouses full of unpurchased option list parts like sports exhausts and carbon.
I couldn’t agree more, I was mainly just replying to when it will eclipse the Speciale and some possible reasons why it may not. Your car is a beast.
I guess after market stripe?
also, why has the asking price dropped by 40% over the past 3 years (without much increase in mileage)?
I just finished watching his video and I didn't think it was his best. The first issue I had when he pointed out the cavallino on the "valve covers"??????? Sorry but that is the air intake plenums. Secondly, I felt as though he was "reaching" for things to say about the car. Don't get me wrong, I like his video's and he normally provides a good bit of information, but he seemed "off" with this review. Just my .02
Also had quite a few facts wrong too.
Despite rumours, regurgitated in his review, not a single part came from the challenge race cars. There are indeed interviews with original Ferrari project manager who stated at the time road cars needed longevity which typically race bits didn't have so they deliberately didn't use them. Whether that is true or not, purely from a fact point of view I don't see any evidence of a single part coming from 360 or 430 Challenge being fitted to it. Actually just one (read on .. )
Ferrari did apply the same meticulous blue printing to engine that they'd done on challenge engines to get acceptable tolerances to within 0.5% Vs 2.0% on stock Modena (said to be good for 5hp) but again these where engines specific to the Road cars. Specific pistons which helped with blueprinting and increase of CR a bit, better machined heads and most importantly, specific ECU firmware. Yet all was mentioned was titanium conrods, which as anyone who owns a 360 knows are in every model variant.
Furthermore the Enzo connection for braking is a little overdone, CCM was first used on Enzo but they are different parts and actually came from the F430 but that doesn't sound as cool. Useless fact of the day, The only shared part with Enzo (and 430 Challenge race car) was the red engine start button. The gearbox ECU was a common part used across all F1 equipped cars, it didn't come from Enzo.
The only other tech transfer was use of Resin Transfer Moulding to make the fibreglass bumpers lighter..
Engineers working with conflicting requirements of making a car have great ride comfort, be easy to drive, have a low NVH (noise, harshness and vibration), with squashy comfortable seats and ability to put golf clubs behind seats all go against the purity of a focused drivers car. The CS blasts all of these "requirements" to secondary nice to have and that alone means focus is on handling, performance and feel. Makes the car go from mainstream nice to a different personality and much much better as a consequence.
Still better researched overall than many articles I see written about the car. I think he overplayed the instability thing too much though. Any car on a bumpy British A road in the wet will be a little unstable, the difference is he's not used to feeling this sensation back through the cabin, something modern cars with electronic steering and more advanced for ride quality dampers shield you from. I did the "Eric" mod which allows you to put suspension in soft mode and rest in race mode and that makes a huge difference on such roads. The ECU for ABS doesn't have ESP but it does have Electronic brake force distribution so is very stable under braking.
Gorgeous images, fine review.
Thanks for posting.
What I can tell he does change from 2nd to 1st in several occasions while driving somewhat speedy manner. What I've imagined is that its not recommended to change into 1st while car is in motion faster than walking phase? This comes from ordinary manual tranny cars which early F1-system is quite comparable.
I would never change from 2nd to 1st with any manual transmission car when car is moving something like 40-50mph (like in that video, 1st gear engages in very high RPM range = speed is much more than few MPH), not sportscars nor daily drivers.
Am I wrong?
We all have to adjust our opinion of this fellow; his core audience are kids who just gobble up his dribble blindly...this is the same bloke who allegedly owned a 430 Scuderia (before wrecking it, allegedly) yet somehow can repeatedly tell folks the 430 Scuderia was released in 2010...
If you can watch his videos and just enjoy the visuals and sounds while ignoring what he blabs off a piece of paper of stats he printed out the night earlier off the internet, then they can be entertaining. I for one do NOT appreciate the magnitude of his misinformation in almost ALL his videos.
You tell some nonsense...
Explain how the Challenge Stradale, premiered in Geneva Salon Mondial de l'Automobile in March 2003, could dispose of the F430 CCM brakes?
For your information:
-The Challenge Stradale DID have the Enzo CCM brakes.
-The F430 was premiered a year and a half after the CS, at the Paris Motor Show in October 2004
-The F430 had standard steel disc brakes
-CCM brakes were an option on the F430.
Order of releases:
1. Enzo - October 2002
2. Challenge Stradale - March 2003
3. F430 - October 2004
You don't need to be rude about it, especially when its you that's misinformed.
Lets talk about facts here (with proof). I've held both the Enzo CCM's and the F430/CS CCM's in my hands and they are different discs.
Here's the proof if you don't believe me;
196416 and 240531 - Front
222340 - Rear
194952 and 195171 - Front
267232 - Rear
The Enzo's CCM's are totally different. Different center bells, different everything...
The reason why the CS was able to share parts with the F430 was because it was designed at the same time as the F430. And again if you don't believe me, just look at the facts, same Shared wheels, even the same shared air ball vents in the dashboard (with same part numbers!)...
Need I go on? If you want further proof, ask the Project Manager who actually did the Challenge Stradale (yes he's in my LinkedIn circle)..
James is clearly a car enthusiast and I actually like his videos. I'm subscribed. While he may not get everything right, its virtually impossible to if you are experimenting with so many models. By and large his videos are some of the better editing and filmed ones on YouTube.
.. and while we are discussing CS discs, from my experience dismantling them Vs the Scuderia ones, the original center bells where just terrifying bad. Made of heavy thick cast steel and make a mockery out of the use of titanium lugs. This was addressed on 430 Scuderia and the difference is night and day... If you want your CS to handle (much) better you fix this first...
And fit the Eric soft damper mode switch while your at it
I have a YouTube channel with over 10K+ organic subscribers. I think his video are pretty decent. It’s not as easy as it looks to produce high quality content. I’d like to see some of you try so we can critique you. Sheesh [eyes rollin]
+1 and they're by and large entertaining and James is a likeable personality who's car passion comes across in his work. I wish him luck.
I don't mind JWW but I stopped watching after the first Valkyrie specc'ing episode - to me that was such a blatant commercial arrangement and not at all what was portrayed in the video.
WRT CCMs there were a few permutations:
1) The Enzo came first and featured Brembo's first CCM mounting system based on 'fingers' within the disc. Early 360 CS's had this system;
2) Later, Brembo rationalised the system to reduce cost by producing something that could be used on CCM and iron discs, and improve disc location. Later CS's had the this system but with (heavy) stainless steel bells. Ditto very early F430's. The bells are easily distinguishable as they are silver;
3) 2007 onwards F430s and all current Ferraris have the later system but with aluminium bells. They are black in colour.