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360 ECU´s with 448HP and 9200RPM

Discussion in '360/430' started by HGParts, Nov 4, 2003.

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  1. HGParts

    HGParts Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2003
    456
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Heiko from HGParts
    here what a few allready have in there cars. i have ECU´s were you can take the cats out and will get no check engine light for sure. they are made to run without cats and the car goes up to 9200RPM. we had a car on the dino here and it had 448HP and did 9239RPM. the set is $5000 and you can keep your stock set. for more info just email me

    heiko
    hgparts
    Sponsor of FerrariChat
    Webshop: http://stores.andale.com/hgparts
     
  2. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    I find that doubtful, but would love to see a copy of the Dyno graph.
     
  3. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    26,253
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    anything for the Stradale coming ?
     
  4. HGParts

    HGParts Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2003
    456
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Heiko from HGParts
    here you go

    heiko
    hgparts
    Sponsor of FerrariChat
    email: hgparts@arcor.de
    Webshop: http://stores.andale.com/hgparts
     
  5. HGParts

    HGParts Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2003
    456
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Heiko from HGParts
  6. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    From what im looking at, it seems you are calculating approx a 25% power loss to the rear wheel?

    Id think it would be more like 15-18%.
     
  7. Russ Birch

    Russ Birch Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    437
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Russ Birch
    I just did Heiko's system and the difference is amazing. The car feels like a completely different car. Pulls harder throughout the entire rpm range, VERY snappy throttle up over 5000, and at 9000 sounds like a thousand wild banshees. Absolutely screaming F1 sounds ! The sound is not just some "overly loud straight pipes" kind of sound, its rich and full of harmonics, it sounds like a chord made up of numerous different pitches. You just have to hear it.

    The whole system was rather expensive, but the Capristo costs less than a Tubi, the straight pipes cost the same as any others, but the ECUs cost a LOT. Gotta say though that the factory tweaked ECUs made all the difference in the world. The car ran well with the stock chips but when I put Heiko's chips in the thing came to life in a very big way. Amazing difference.

    Heiko is a first rate guy and his system simply kicks ass. No two ways about it...The best money I have ever spent on any car at any time.

    Russ
     
  8. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Not doubting that it made a difference and sounds better, but i doubt 50hp more.
     
  9. Russ Birch

    Russ Birch Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    437
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Russ Birch
    Allan,

    Is that a girl licking a car?
     
  10. t88power

    t88power Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    2,396
    Puerto Rico
    Full Name:
    Ernesto
    Painful as it may be, I agree with Allan. I want to hear about specific things that are done to the ECU to generate the claimed horsepower increase. The car dynoed 448rwhp? Or did you calculate the drivetrain loss to arrive at a flywheel number?

    Ernesto
     
  11. HGParts

    HGParts Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2003
    456
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Heiko from HGParts
    i did not program the ecu´s. the hp448 is the engine hp. a stock 360 has about 307hp on the wheels this car with the ecu´s had 341hp. so thats all i can say on the facts.

    Heiko
    HGParts
    Sponsor of FerrariChat
    email: hgparts@arcor.de
    Webshop: http://stores.andale.com/hgparts
     
  12. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Where do you see 341rwhp? I see 329rwhp. I can see a 20hp increase, but not 50.
     
  13. HGParts

    HGParts Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2003
    456
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Heiko from HGParts
    251KW is 341.36HP on the real wheels
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,335
    I can believe that there is some gain.....

    What I can't understand is how this effects engine longevity.

    We already know that various versions of this same engine (F355) have valve guide issues. We know that front runners in the challeng series do a top end rebuild at least every year, some between races. We know that banging a challenge car off the rev limiter will scuff up the upper cylinder area and otherwise degrade the engine in rather fast order. And there is no telling what happens to valve springs at this rev range.

    So what kind of engien warentee goes with this ECU?
     
  15. G-force

    G-force F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2002
    3,053
    so california
    Full Name:
    wayne skiles
    [I don't know why everyone doubts 50 HP. EVO uses a GIAC chip
    on the 996TT and does much better than that. I know turbos are involved....
    but amazing improvements are possible.
     
  16. t88power

    t88power Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    2,396
    Puerto Rico
    Full Name:
    Ernesto
    Turbo and non-turbo is like night and day.

    Ernesto
     
  17. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Wayne: because pulling that kind of power from a forced induction setup is *much* easier.

    --Dan
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Mitch
    It's interesting to note my P4 engine makes 450HP @ 8700 rpm. Bob Wallace who rebuilt it with Alberto Pedretti thinks it will run for a while. Why wouldn't an engine built 37 years later?
     
  19. msgm1

    msgm1 Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    362
    NYC
    Russ, love the 448hp in your car, but was it out of factory warranty when you did the upgrade?
     
  20. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
    Full Name:
    Jon K.
    I am with Allan on this one. I have tried at least a dozen chips in both my 355 Challenge and my M5. Both are pre-OBDII.

    I can't verify nor dispute HG's claims but consider the following:

    1) On the BMW I tested 3 different chips from the big tuning companies that do BMW work (Dinan, Jim Conforti, Autothority). All these chips were tested on an engine dyno when an engine rebuild was done so there is no drive line loss. All three advertised somewhere between 40-48 horsepower gain.

    The best chip, which was the Jim Conforti chip, gained 14 horsepower.

    2) On my Challenge car we tried three different chips and the only one that came close to it's claim was a TAP chip which gave us 9 horsepower (they claimed 28+). In fact the first set of chips that TAP sent me we lost 6 horsepower.

    There seem to be a lot of claims made with dyno charts and many (not saying HG is one of them) use all sorts of questionable factors/calculations such as driveline loss.

    Consider the following......

    Most 355 Challenge cars, which all used the 95 engine with OBDI software dynoed on a chassis dyno between 310 at the low end and about 317-319 at the high end.

    Now we know that stock 355 should make about 375-380 at the crank.

    Using a 15% drive line loss would mean that a stock 355 with 375 horsepower makes 319 at the wheels. We know that driveline loss number is wrong since.....

    ...a Challenge car has no emmissions equipment such as catalytic converters and has a reprogrammed ECU that raises redline by 500 rpms and uses a more race optimized fuel and timing curve.

    Therefor I think 17-19% driveline loss might be a bit more accurate. However, 25% seems way over the top.

    Just looking at the numbers a 50+ hp gain from a chip on an engine making 400 hp seems high. Even with a performance exhaust (which by itself might add 3-5 hp) and a chip 50 seems high.

    I had the Challenge software programmed into my 355 when it was street car along with a Tubi Sport exhaust and other than imporved throttle response we gained only 4 horsepower and flattened the torque curve a bit.

    From my experience with race cars it's hard to believe claims of big horsepower jumps from a chip and exhaust alone. Consider that a $5000 Motec stand alone engine management system typically gains 7-9% horsepower (which on a 360 would be 30-36 horsepower) I have a hard time believing that a chip gains 12%+.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    As far as turbos go chips can make a huge difference. I have seen verified gains on engine dynoes for simple Audi/VW 1.8 Turbo motors make an additional 30 horsepower with nothing more than a chip (and we are talking 170 hp to 200 hp).

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    1995 F355 Challenge #23
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
  21. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    Nice to get the extra power, but anyone think about what this does to the warranty? Bet it isn't good. When you blow it up, be prepared to put everything back to stock before you take it to the dealer, and hope the ECU doesn't snitch you out.

    Not a good idea, in my book.

    Art
     
  22. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    If one assumes that the dyno curve is for ECU, straight pipes, performance exhaust and maybe a free-flow air filter I can believe it

    - he claims 341 hp at the rear wheels at 9239rpm
    - stock we can expect around 310 hp at 8500rpm

    so overall we gain around 30 hp at the rear wheel

    - + 700 rpm should be good for ~ 10 hp
    - modified cat + exhaust 15 – 20 hp

    I don’t think these numbers are far off from what can be done with a NA stock engine. What is under discussion is the rear wheel to engine conversion.

    It would be nice to see the before curve to determine in which region the hp gain occurs and what the impact on torque is. I expect it all to be at the high end, i.e. one will see higher top speed but not a lot in acceleration.

    The relative strong drop in torque starting at 8000rpm means that usability of this range is limited to gain top speed.
     
  23. mw575

    mw575 F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2001
    2,924
    Lake Oswego,Or
    Full Name:
    Martin J Weiner,M.D.
    If I am wrong I apologize in advance but if it's 341 hp at the rear wheels.isn't it 400 hp at the flywheel since everything I have read or seen at the dyno figures a 15% loss.????
     
  24. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765

    15% on average over the complete range of operation is the rule of thumb - I would not rule out ~20%, i.e. I have seen it used before - it usually depends on the gear that was used
     
  25. tracknut

    tracknut Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    31
    Folsom, CA
    Full Name:
    Dave Mills
    It doesn't have to be this hard... If we had a rear wheel dyno, before and after, that would do it. No need to confuse things with estimates of engine horsepower.

    Dave
     

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