360 engine rebuild | FerrariChat

360 engine rebuild

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by mebozart, May 6, 2024.

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  1. mebozart

    mebozart Rookie

    May 16, 2022
    44
    Bloomington, Indiana
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    Matt Bozarth
    Guys, I’m buying a 2000 360 that’s quite a mess. Low compression on one half and timing codes. My plan is to pull the motor and tear it down for rebuild. I own a repair facility and will be having my master tech do most of the work but would love someone with technical experience in this area. Can anyone recommend a place that could give guidance on machine work, valve and spring upgrades (if it’s necessary), degreeing the cams, etc?

    I own a 348 and we just spent a year restoring that including an engine out. We have never messed with a 360 though. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,948
    The Cold North
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    Wait..low compression and timing codes? Why not take a couple hours, re set the timing (the engine can be out as much as 5 teeth before valve to piston contact will occur) and then see how it runs, BEFORE you jump in head first?
     
    RedNeck likes this.
  3. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 World Champ
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    Any idea WHY? the compression is so low? Precat failure or some kind of timing issue? The fix could range from easy af to full teardown.
     
  4. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,217
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    Wade Williams
    I would definitely check timing first. With low compression on one side that indicates bad cam timing on one side. There are dots on the cam that should line up with a vertical groove machined in the forward cap. That will tell you if it is off. A degree wheel and dial indicators will tell you if the intake cam is opening at 10 degrees BTDC and the exhaust is closing at 9 degrees ATDC. That is where the cams need to be. The variator on the exhaust also needs to function correctly and the is much harder to test.
    Check the belts, tensioners, and timing first.
     
  5. mebozart

    mebozart Rookie

    May 16, 2022
    44
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Full Name:
    Matt Bozarth
    Guy


    Thanks guys. I’d assumed that if the belt jumped it would have dinged a valve. I’m surprised to hear it can skip that much and not cause interference. We will certainly check that before pulling the engine. I haven’t gotten the car yet so I’m not sure the answers to these questions. I was just planning for the worst. As far as variators go, looks like (from limited research) you have to pull the exhaust cam? This is an early car and I do not know if they have been changed.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Small valves do not require a lot of lift and the combination plus the valve angle keep them a long way from the pistons.
     
  7. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,365
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    Brian Brown
    Why not do a cylinder leakage test to see if the valves have been bent?
     
  8. mebozart

    mebozart Rookie

    May 16, 2022
    44
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Full Name:
    Matt Bozarth

    Well I got the 360 delivered and now it does not start. According to the seller, the car started and ran for about 20 minutes in anticipation of the delivery truck. It was turned off and now will not start. As I said, we have some work to do with this car and were going to do a leak down test and compression test. I would like to have some input on common crank no start issues. I am not familiar with the 360 at all so those of you that are could really give some guidance. The engine turns over as well as I would expect it to. It doesn't sound like a vehicle that has no compression, but we have not checked that yet. In fact, we have not relay checked anything yet. I thought the immobilizer was causing a problem but after a little research, I am not sure. When you hit the button on the red remote you can see the light to the left of the wheel blink quickly for a while then set into a normal blinking pattern as the car is locked. There is no chime, however. If you hit the button again, the light goes away and again, no chime. You turn the key with foot on the brake and check ok come us with the triangle light and crank, crank, crank with nothing. It will not sputter or even try to start. The fact that it doesn't even try tells me its most likely something universal to both banks. We will check fuel, spark and compression but I wanted to know if anyone had something simple to check first. As you all know, this car is vastly different than my 348 and I am learning everything for the first time. I know this question is very broad but before we put too much time into "normal" crank no start diag, I thought I would ask for some "common" things to look for. TIA
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Turn the key to the on position, push the button on the remote then crank the engine.
     
  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    Immobilizers do dumb things when they go bad. You might have to dig into it a bit later on.

    For now, sit in the car, push the button on the key fob, note that the red LED is steady, insert the key, turn it to On position, wait for the message Check OK on the dash, turn the key further to start the car.

    If it does not start, turn the key to Off, push the button on the Fob one more time, turn the key to On position, wait for the Check OK, then turn the key further to start it.

    If that does not do it, then you need to start digging on fuses, relays, fuel pressure, etc...
     
  11. mebozart

    mebozart Rookie

    May 16, 2022
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    Bloomington, Indiana
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    Matt Bozarth
    Thanks. My 348 has two of everything. Does the 360 have two fuel pumps, two circuits for everything, etc?
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Affirmative, for all intents and purposes, two separate 4 cylinder engines and injection/ignition systems connected to a common flat plane crank.
     
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Thats just confusing the issue. If the key is in the on position, the fob can only do one thing. Turn the immobilizer off.
     
  14. mebozart

    mebozart Rookie

    May 16, 2022
    44
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Full Name:
    Matt Bozarth
    Thanks for the help. Found the problem today. There was no fuel pressure on the passenger side bank. Swapped the fuel pump relays and the car fired up. Did not run well at all. Some of that was the be expected but this was bad. Swapped the bad relay with the ac relay and it fired up and ran as I expected. I am surprised that the single fuel pump working didn’t make it cough or anything but it did not. Now we can get back to checking into our running problem. I’m sure I’ll have more questions. Thanks guys.
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I would really like to know the compression numbers across all 8 cylinders

    Ray
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Leak down is more important.
     
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  17. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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