360 F1 downshift | FerrariChat

360 F1 downshift

Discussion in '360/430' started by f0430z, Feb 22, 2011.

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  1. f0430z

    f0430z Karting

    Sep 27, 2008
    91
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    fz
    I have a question about downshifting with a 2002 f1... what is the proper RPM to downshift when driving aggressive. I find that anything over 3,000 to 3,500 feels very abrupt as if the engine was not ready for a downshift... I've seen videos of CS having the downshift blip and it sounds much more natural... any comments?
     
  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,169
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Should not be a problem as long as the downshift will not exceed redline, otherwise the F1 system will hesitate until a safe engine speed is reached for a downshift. Those engine speeds are easy to calculate since they are simply a function of the gear ratios. Ratios on the 360 are 1st 3.286, 2nd 2.158, 3rd 1.609, 4th 1.269, 5th 1.034, 6th 0.848. So if you were going to downshift from 4th to 3rd, maximum revs the system would allow would be 1.269/1.609 x 8500 = 6704 rpm. From 3rd to 2nd, it would be 6338 rpm.

    Does this occur in both Normal and Sport? In Sport the shifts are double clutched, according to the WSM, and will be quicker and smoother, even if clutch wear increases slightly because of the extra engagement cycle.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  3. av2

    av2 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2008
    478
    S. California
    You were probably light on the brakes and "engine braking" at high RPM. Hard on the brakes, down shift and then into the corner you go.
     
  4. SfefVan

    SfefVan Guest

    Nov 28, 2008
    1,370
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Stef
    There should be no extra wear when double clutching I think. The first clutch happens in neutral, no gears engaged. The second when the lower gear is engaged. That's what we do with manual gears. It helps synchros which will suffer less and clutch life too as rev match is much better when second clutch is made. The blib is made when clutch is depressed, in neutral. So that gives the following sequence of 8 movements:
    1) Clutch depressed
    2) Gear in neutral
    3) Clutch released
    4) Blib
    5) Clutch depressed
    6) Lower gear engaged
    7) Clutch released

    All in 150 ms....in manual, 500ms ;) and you have to brake too at the same time of course ;)
     
  5. paulie_b

    paulie_b F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 13, 2003
    6,842
    Jupiter, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Bianco
    is this true regarding wear?
    from the post above: In Sport mode..........even if clutch wear increases slightly because of the extra engagement cycle.
     
  6. f0430z

    f0430z Karting

    Sep 27, 2008
    91
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    fz
    Thanks for the info, I'm always on sport mode as I prefer the quicker shifts. I feel better to know that the f1 downshift is normal. I would of preferred if I had the blip option.
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,169
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Stef- Not sure I agree with that. I agree with the part about less wear on the synchros, but it is just two cycles on surfaces parting and meeting, clutch springs compressing and extending, and the throw-out bearing opening and closing the clutch. On a synchronized, non-double clutched downshift, the revs are still matched on the flywheel and the clutch plate and the synschonizers match the gear speeds, so there is no more wear on the clutch plate than on half a double clutched downshift. With double and triple synchro rings, I am not sure I am too worried about synchro and transmission wear and have not heard too many owners of 360s, 575Ms, of F430s having to have their transmissions rebuilt. Have heard about a lot of them changing clutches, though. Brian Crall says most F1 T/O bearings are used three times as much as a manual shifter T/O bearing.

    Save the synchro rings, yes, save the clutch, no, I do not think so.

    If you can do a double clutched downshift with a manual transmission in 500 ms, my hat is off to you. Most people cannot even upshift that fast, and I did some drag-racing in my earlier years. My 575M does it in 220 ms, and that is enough for a big pop on upshifts. Lots of torque.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     

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