360 F1 will not engage gear when car is running | FerrariChat
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360 F1 will not engage gear when car is running

Discussion in '360/430' started by dan the man, Oct 13, 2012.

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  1. dan the man

    dan the man Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    146
    Alabama
    Full Name:
    Daniel
    #1 dan the man, Oct 13, 2012
    2003 360 F1.

    Engine off, key on, the F1 will take all gears (1-6) and neutral.

    Engine running, F1 will attempt to take gear (car tries to move forward) but will not take gear. It is the exact same as if you attempted to force a manual into first gear without depressing the clutch.

    Viewing the clutch and throwout bearing (inspection plate off) the clutch actuates and a gear is selected with key on, engine off. Clutch does NOT actuate but a gear is attempted with key on, engine running.

    I have determined the clutch position sensor is defective. I have a couple of questions prior to this conclusion.

    Does the TCU consider clutch position when shifting into a gear with the car off? I do not know why it would, and this logic that it would not is consistent with what I am seeing.

    Is there anything else in this system I may have overlooked which would keep the computer from trying to disengage the clutch while trying to shift into gear? It appears the computer is not registering a problem. Therefore, I think the sensor is giving a false reading to the TCU. any thoughts?

    I have verified no air in the hydraulic system. Due to how it acts, I do not suspect a bad pump or low pressure. I would expect the clutch would not disengage with engine off if this was the case.

    Thank you,
     
  2. 993man

    993man Formula Junior
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    Graham
    #2 993man, Oct 13, 2012
    I hope that whatever it is, is a simple fix. Did it throw the CEL?
    Good luck
     
  3. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    Eddie B
    #3 rustybits, Oct 13, 2012
    If the clutch is worn or there is a PIS issue this happens. The reason it will change gear with the engine off is that it sees no rpm on the input shaft sensor. If you engage gear with the engine running, it dips the clutch and sees rpm then it won't select a gear. If you had an issue with the gear position sensor on the actuator it wouldn't select gear regardless of engine running or not, if you have a sticking slave this will also cause this. Clutch position sensor failure is very, very rare.
     
  4. dan the man

    dan the man Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Alabama
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    Daniel
    #4 dan the man, Oct 13, 2012
    It has not set any codes.

    Rusty, thank you for the comment. the system is attempting to select a gear without depressing the clutch. It is the same as if you attempted to put a manual in first gear without depressing the clutch. the car will start to roll as it attempts to engage gear. I have watched the throwout bearing and it does not attempt to disengage the clutch when running. It does do it when not running.

    If you push the car while attempting to select a gear it will eventually take gear. But, if you attempt to stop with it in gear it will choke to a stall. Same as if you failed to clutch a manual transmission when approaching a stop.

    I have seen where Ferrari recalled several 2005-2007 366 Scagliettis for the same sensor. They did state it would set a code in the 366. I am suspect it is simply sending the wrong signal.
     
  5. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    #5 rustybits, Oct 13, 2012
    Yes the 575 and scag had a recall but it was a bracket issue. I have only seen 2 or maybe three cp sensors fail on 360's. Much more common is Sticking release bearing causing "clutch over pis" do you have access to diagnostic? If so try looking at input shaft speed in the parameters, with engine running in "n". If you see rpm on that sensor it will not go into gear.If the car starts to creep but doesn't engage it further points towards this as the probable cause.
     
  6. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    #6 ar4me, Oct 13, 2012
    Sounds like it is time to have it hooked up to SD2 or similar to help diagnose.
    Jes
     
  7. dan the man

    dan the man Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Daniel
    #7 dan the man, Oct 13, 2012
    scratch everything.

    I got the car higher and was able to better look at the clutch assembly. Clutch exploded.

    Apparently every time I had the car off and looked at it, I was seeing the side that had not came apart. I was using a mirror.

    Once I got in a better position (directly underneath), I could see that part of the pressure plate was still pressed. As I rolled the engine over with the flywheel, the exploded clutch came into view.

    new clutch time.

    Thanks for your input Rusty.

    Daniel
     

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