360 manual gets stuck in third. | FerrariChat

360 manual gets stuck in third.

Discussion in '360/430' started by Radtrader360, Jan 5, 2023.

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  1. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    My 360 manual sticks in third. The same thing also occasionally happens in first. I’ve noticed that this happens particularly after accelerating hard to higher RPM’s. I’m able to get it out of gear but only after using a fair amount of force. My car is a 2000 360 coupe. Any ideas for a DIYer?
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,448
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    You might try adjusting the gear shift cable / actuator at the gearbox. This is a Non F1 I assume.
     
    imahorse likes this.
  3. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
    5,630
    Houston
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    One4torque
    Some ideas—

    see if the clutch hyd t fitting is split and leaking
    Common failure point

    check if mm’s and trans mount is shot
    Perhaps trans is moving around enough to put your shift linkage off or in a bind

    I’m thinking your clutch hyd fluid is leaking or needs to be bled

    hopefully not an internal syncro issue… although when my synchros went bad I had trouble going into gear or grinding into gear or would not stay in gear under accel


    Have you tried double clutching? Does that make a diff?



    other ideas-
    Shift bushing at gated shifter knob is broken.. oem is plastic

    as mentioned above shift cables out of adjustment
     
    cavlino likes this.
  4. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    Thanks for the quick reply. Will check the cable/actuator. Yes; it’s a three pedal.
     
  5. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    Great ideas. Will post updated findings.
     
  6. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
    7,816
    San Jose, California
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    Mike
    Does the problem get worse as the temperature increases?
     
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  7. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    I don’t think so. Seems to be independent of warmth. Happens predictably when accelerating hard to higher rpm’s.
     
  8. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
    7,816
    San Jose, California
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    Mike
    As a test, while the car is stopped, shift into third gear and let the clutch out. Is there any play in the shifter at that point? If so then you could also check the rubber ends at the actuator if the plastic bushing has been checked and is okay.
    One more thing: You need to do more than just visually check the plastic bushing without removing it. It may be the case that the top ring part is intact but one of the legs is broken.
     
  9. craze

    craze Formula 3
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    Mar 5, 2021
    1,159
    Melbourne
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    Michael
    I had a manual car before clutch throwout sticking or something like that at high rpm on another car

    Are you sure its not 2nd gear also?
     
  10. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    Sorry, I should have mentioned earlier in the thread that I’ve already replaced the shifter bushing with the Hill replacement part. The problem seems to be unrelated to the bushing.
    Also, as I’m assessing the problem I’ve been able to confirm that the engine mounts look fine.
     
  11. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
     
  12. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    I don’t have the problem in any other gears; just first and third. I have identified some abrasion of the cable plastic outer layer but nothing that looks like it could explain the problem either.
     
  13. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    Further updated findings. Hydraulic fittings/bleeder block look fine. Double clutching doesn’t help. I did find abraded shifter cable as posted recently.
     
  14. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    Sorry as mentioned in other reply i should have explained that the oem shifter bushing has been replaced with Hill E part. Shifting feels much more precise but the getting stuck phenomenon was unaffected.
     
  15. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2004
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    I'll bet you anything it is the actuator. I have a factory gated 2000 and my shifter would get stuck in 3rd really hard when the temperature went up. I realize that yours is not temperature related, but enough coking inside the actuator could easily cause this. Call Carl at Scuderia Transmission Repair. He's rebuilt over 150 360 and over 100 430 transmissions. He rebuilds these actuators with OEM parts. 1-209-810-6501.
     
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  16. Exvetteguy

    Exvetteguy Karting

    Aug 5, 2012
    122
    Wolcott Ct
    Full Name:
    Eric Schifilliti
    My Old Viper Did A Similar Thing...Had To Bleed The Slave Cylinder...Ended Up Replacing Everything Over The Winter As Super Annoying...
     
  17. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    Problem solved! I want to thank everyone who responded with ideas for my problem. Turns out that it was due to binding of the cables as they course underneath the transmission where zip ties were used to secure the cable. The combination of overly tight zip ties and partially abraded outer sharing was causing the problem which felt remarkably mechanical (ie transmission internal problem).
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
  19. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Fred
    Thanks for sharing David.
    I am not close to my car (it is taking an extended beauty nap during the winter) but I just added checking these cables on my to do list in the spring
     
  20. craze

    craze Formula 3
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    Mar 5, 2021
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    Michael
    good spotting, any idea why there are cable ties on it? Surely thats not factory fitment?
     
  21. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Last mechanic in there probably thought they were being tidy.
     
  22. ItalGerBrit

    ItalGerBrit Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2016
    904
    S La
    How did you figure that out? Cut the tie wraps off and let the cables dangle free?
     
  23. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    I'm having a hard time believing cables was your issue here. Why only in third and first. But if it worked then I'm glad for ya
     
    SoftwareDrone likes this.
  24. Radtrader360

    Radtrader360 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2022
    17
    Scottsdale AZ
    Full Name:
    David Allegra
    I’m sorry to have mislead you all. This poster is correct. I initially thought the cables were binding where there was some abrasion of the outer sheathing of the shifter cable because I thought the problem resolved after removing the diffuser/the rear under panel thinking that he additional pressure on the cables by the under panel was causing the problem.
    Figuring out the real problem required getting the car back to my garage while being stuck in third. Jacking the car up for the umpteenth time, removing the under panel yet again I finally definitively found the problem and the explanation for why it was only occurring in first and third.
    At the end of the shifter cable before connecting to the transaxle apparatus, two concentric mettalic tubes arepresent with the assembly held in place by a degrade plastic component. What was actually happening is that the outer was telescoping away from the owner to and in first and third gear positions had enough room to completely separate from the inner tube and thereby locking in position. I was able to get out of this position just by randomly and pulling on the shifter in different ways and eventually it would recannulate itself so to speak. Here are pictures of what was actually happening and once again forgive me for the missed diagnosis but I’m now 100% confident this was the problem. Here are some pics of the status when stuck.
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