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360 market values

Discussion in '360/430' started by Philly, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. cwilson13

    cwilson13 Formula 3
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    My 2003 spider shows rear grill purchased as an option on the sticker.
    No frontgrill on the car or mentioned on the sticker.
     
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  3. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3
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    Very interesting posts here.

    Concerning the 928 Porsche: Cool car but what I've been told by guys in PCA that once out of warranty most found that the cost to repair was as much as a 911SC at the time. So they passed on any nice used ones. I drove the 928 at the Dealer the year they came out. I just don't think most could warm up to the car since up to that point Porsche was and had always been the 911-- I know I didn't. Two totally different cars. I decided on a 911. And here is where it relates to the 360s. Very few 5 speeds stick 928s were ordered. Most all were Automatics. However, nowadays, most buyers couldn't care less what trans was in the car. Just not enough interest in the car itself.

    Accessing value of "used cars" is a crap shoot to me. In my business there is a publication by Old Cars Weekly called the Old Car Price Guide. In it you can find almost every car ever made (and in some editions, imports too) with the price valuation on a scale of "1" being a fresh restoration to "5" (IIRC maybe even 6) defining a parts car that is not feasibly restore-able. This is usually published more than once a year. Now, let's be honest. How can that be an accurate reflection of values when some rare cars (production under 1000 units) almost never change hands on a regular basis and the unpopular models of any marque seldom find any buyers.

    For me the value of any car is based on interest. There are plenty of cars out there that are truly rare (Renaut Dauphine comes to mind) that have never be of any interest to collectors.

    The 360's of course are not a car without an interested market. But with that said I really can't see how to gauge the interest in the coming years. For me I see the 360 as a middle class sports classic. And make no mistake I love mine and am happy to keep it for the long term with little interest in what it's value will be. Yet I see the market for these middle of the road (price-wise) Ferraris not selling too well since there are not a lot of middle of the road buyers to support robust sales. In my business I see the cheap stuff sell and the best of the best bring the money-- the in-between, the nicely done cars that can be enjoyed, they all seem to languish on the market. I think we are seeing the same in the Ferrari 360 market right now.

    I bought my car in August of last year. I love it. I would buy it again today at the same price-- and would probably be able to. As I have been peeking at the market prices of the 360 Modenas they seem to not have gone south much more than what I was looking at in the summer of last year when I bought mine. But to be sure I still see some of the same cars for sale that I looked at last June. Some movement down in price but again, the really nice cars, not much.

    As a friend told me: "the time to buy is when you find the car you want". I have enjoyed my car every day since the day it was delivered. Sometimes just looking at it but mostly driving it. I don't let resale value get in the way of my enjoyment.

    Cheers, guys
     
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  4. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Sorry if this is getting off-topic..

    I think that Ferrari's take about a year to sell when you put it on the market. That is.. you find a buyer the first week and it sells in 24 hours. Or, it sits on ebay, Autotrader and Cars.com for a year until you discount it 10-20% and the right buyer sells his condo and buys the car he's always wanted.

    On the OTHER hand.. what I saw with my 928 ad was the first 2 weeks: 4 people expressed interest. 2 wanted a collector grade car (it wasn't even close) for the price I had posted. "Umm No". Two were low ballers with the same offer. I sold it to the one guy who I liked and actually seemed to have a long term interest in 928's.

    Then, AFTER you sell it. And only AFTER you sell it... you'll have a multitude of people interested. :) Always works that way.

    The interesting thing is after the 928, the 360 is fascinating because while I doubt it will spike to Six figure status, it has classic Ferrari lines, is red and even today has interest from many many people when I take it for a drive. It's the exact opposite from the german GT. :)
     
  5. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Find a 928 GTS with 5 sp for sale and it will sell for more than its orig selling price 20+ years ago. Automatic GTSs will sell for 50% less.

    But I do agree with you on the 360. Not collector
     
  6. Bob in Makiki

    Bob in Makiki Formula Junior
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    In addition to tracking 360 market values, Hagerty also tracks an index of Ferrari Collector cars, which tends to include cars at the high end of the Ferrari market (many of them with values greater than the value of my house!). Interestingly, that index has been basically flat for the last three years or so, too. In the January 2018 "Expert Commentary" there, Brian Rabold writes: "Ferraris have always been the most volatile of any make in the collector car market. They typically are the first to move and the first to fall. The fact they have been so stable over the past three years underscores that the market has truly plateaued."

    If you are interested, go to Hagerty.com and check out the Ferrari Collector Car Index. I recommend it.
     
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  8. KC360 FL

    KC360 FL Formula 3
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    #131 KC360 FL, Jan 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    Make no mistake, I was certainly not disparaging the 928 or trying to rehash the stick vs automatic feud. Just that even with a few interested in the model, not many get sold for a decent price. Some do of course. Just saying after 25 years of owning P cars and being in the PCA, not too many guys have a soft spot for them. And few have any inkling of owning one-- stick or auto. Very little interest= very little market appreciation. Could this be the case as the 360 ages? Anyone's guess. My guess? As long as the Dinos, 308s, etc. keep going up, as the saying goes "the rising tide will lift all boats". And that will include the 360.

    When the prices stabilize on the older aforementioned models, IMO so will the pricing on the 360 as it gets closer to a 20+ year old Ferrari.
     
  9. Formula1r

    Formula1r Formula Junior

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    I am sorry...what? See below:
    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-porsche-928-3/
    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-porsche-928-gts/
    Porsche 928 GTS were fast powerful GT cars, not mid engined light sports cars. The automatic is actually not making that big of a difference, and in many cases, especially lately... it's preferred!
    360 manuals are still much hotter than F1
     
  10. dang2407

    dang2407 Karting

    Apr 29, 2017
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    The saying should be that the tide will lift all similar boats....
    The 360 is very similar to the 308, 328, 355, 430 etc. The 928 was very different to the 911
     
  11. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    It's too bad we don't have an accurate way to track sales price and not ASK price. With all the niche cars ASK always seems to be in la-la land.
     
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  13. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior

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    its really pointless to track prices daily, weekly, monthly! These are not stocks - there is not enough data (e.g volume). Yearly - at best. Take a look several years, 5 years, 10 years and you will know what happened.

    with so many people predicting so many things, you will be sure to find someone that predicted correctly.

    I totally agree with :
    if the older (are they classics?) car market appreciates - the 360 will appreciate also!!! do NOT expect NART, GTB/4, LM, GTO type appreciation!!! I will leave the 928 vs. 911 debate to others.
     
  14. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    Lets stop posting on this thread and just wake up in 2 years. I think it would be more useful.;)
     
  15. Bob in Makiki

    Bob in Makiki Formula Junior
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    I agree with Curt (vrsurgeon) that the asking price index approach is inherently flawed. But it is, in some ways, perhaps the best we can do. There are debates about its validity on Ferrari Chat going back at least a decade, probably much longer. It is still probably the best one can do with easily accessible data.

    Hagerty tries to generate an index that is based on actual sales. The procedure is discussed in a post above, or on their web site:

    https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/about-our-prices

    So, the data they are looking at are hidden from most of us, and we just need to take their word for it.

    I don't doubt their integrity or their diligence. The problem I think is neatly summarized by 67bmer above: there just isn't enough volume of sales to generate good data for our cars (other cars covered by Hagerty may be different; there are lots of Porsches and muscle cars changing hands). I think Cathy Roush's emphasis in her discussion of the Asking Price Index in January of last year is still correct: look at the asking price index (or Hagerty's price guide) to try to see trends. And it seems to me the trend, whether for our 360s or for Ferraris in general, has been pretty flat the last few years. And that's not bad! At least we are not suffering significant depreciation every year.

    Maybe Bart12 is right: when we wake up in two years, we will see how it looks then!
     
  16. imahorse

    imahorse Formula Junior
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    The values have bottomed out. Once it moves from outdated to a modern classic the values will go up. It happened to all of the 2 seat Ferrari’s before it from my understanding. I however am kind of new to Ferrari.
     
  17. hessank

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  18. Formula1r

    Formula1r Formula Junior

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    My point was automatics are just as valuable if not more now for 928s. Look at the sold prices for those automatics...

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  19. stardoc

    stardoc Formula Junior

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    Look at e-gear Gallardos, they will eventually reach $30k. Point being, automatic high production cars will ALWAYS depreciate to a very minimal level and then just bounce off the bottom. A 928 is a low production Porsche in a very nostalgic pro-classic market right now. I think apples to oranges.
     
  20. traimpz348

    traimpz348 Formula 3

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    $30k? I think that's a bit low... or perhaps wishful thinking.. ha ha.
     
  21. Mikael-F360

    Mikael-F360 Formula Junior

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    I am sorry if this offends someone but Gallardo is a boring Audi that is looking outdated. Bad sounds and doesn't drive that well either. I just drove a manual V10 last summer and what a disappointment.

    Made me love my 360 6MT a lot more. It's superior in all of the above aspects. It really is although this comes from a slightly biased person!
     
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  22. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie
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    I drove an E-~Gear Gallardo on the track and loved it. Each to their own I guess.

    Prices of 360's have started dropping again (See Aldous Voice's web page) in the UK but we're talking a few %. As mentioned above we can't possible know for how much but they do seem to hang a round bit on the forecourt.

    I sold my F355 late 2015, in fact it was part exchanged for my 360 (my F355 and cash, it was actually the 360 that was part exchanged) and the gent I sold it to passed it on very quickly (after 6 months)
    It is still for sale today and started at £115k and currently at £89k.

    There are very few RHD 360's for less than £55k.
     
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  23. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    The only way to own a Gallardo is in RWD, in AWD it feels like Toyota pickup truck..
     
  24. dang2407

    dang2407 Karting

    Apr 29, 2017
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    Well I have both, and I must protest that you are wrong! Both are manuals and both have sports exhausts. The V10 sound is to die for!! The only thing the 360 does better is the idle and low-load sound - the Gallardo needs to get to around 3500rpm before it sounds good. I admit the Gallardo is an RWD version so that makes it a bit more perky than the more common AWD version, but driving it is anything but boring. Cold tyres can be spun up on tarmac in 3rd gear just by stabbing the throttle-pedal, and even with TC on, there is enough yaw movement allowed that it is tapping you on the shoulder saying "hey, I could kill you, you know... be careful".

    If I had to be nit-picky about the 360, I'd say the interior does not feel special - apart from the gated shifter and the 360Modena badge, you could be in an M3 or any other leather lined car. The Gallardo cocoons you in this padded cell, that is in fact special. OK, so visibility is not great, but hey it's a supercar, it shouldn't be easy to drive and yes it should be capable of ending your life.

    Don't get me started on cup-holders and why anybody should even think they belong in a supercar.... I might start another thread on that one day
     
  25. Mikael-F360

    Mikael-F360 Formula Junior

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    Ok, I hear ya. I think two of the reasons for my Gallardo test drive not being a positive experience was that firstly; it was an all wheel drive. Went forward like a train and the steering was numb. Secondly; it had the OEM exhaust on. Didn't hear much of anything even in a tunnel.

    But I am rocking an Agency Power titanium catback set in my 360 so... you know the deal =)
     
  26. Bob in Makiki

    Bob in Makiki Formula Junior
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    The print edition of the Hagerty Price Guide for Jan - Apr 2018 made it to Hawaii this week. Not much new about the 360 that has not been previously discussed: a slight decrease in most 360 categories but basically still flat. There are some interesting general observations about collector cars, however. One comment struck me: "The number of owners who believe that values of their vehicles are rising continues to decrease. For both the owners of mainstream and high-end vehicles, the number is at its lowest point in several years." I would have guessed -- with the stock market going up so strongly -- that collectors would have believed the values of their cars were going up, too. Apparently not. (Maybe this should be a hint about the stock market, too.)

    Also of interest, the '73-'75 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 BB dropped significantly in value (21%), the second largest drop in value of any of the cars Hagerty tracks. I don't know much about that car and can't guess why. The Ferrari index in general "has been so stable over the past three years [that it] underscores that the market has truly plateaued."
     
  27. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    This chicken little has been calling an overinflated stock market for the past 3 years. I was sooo wrong and I missed some serious profit.
    At this point in the economic cycle every idiot and his mom feels flush. The sale guys doing mortgage sales in the early 2000's were selling their 360's unwillingly for a song when I bought mine. When things pop it won't be pretty. But I've been chicken little for quite some time.
     
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  28. Bob in Makiki

    Bob in Makiki Formula Junior
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