360 market values

Neat website.

Check out the Gallery of Horrors.

 

At the Scottsdale auctions, Bonham's sold two 360s: a 2003 360 Spider F1 sold for $85,250, including commissions, and a 2004 360 Spider 6-Speed (Gated) sold for $118,250, including commission. Both were represented as relatively low mileage cars (10,000 or so). Details about the auctions and the Ferraris sold there are available from the auction houses or in the current and most recent past issue of Ferrari Market Letter. It's a great resource and to my mind well worth a subscription.

 

Aldous Voice has posted his March 2018 360 Market Watch, and you can find it here:

https://aldousvoice.com/2018/03/11/ferrari-360-market-watch-march-2018/

As always, his information and his comments are well worth a read.

 

nice, thanks for posting

 

The March 31 issue of Ferrari Market Letter is out. The stock market may be bouncing around as we go into the second quarter of the year, but the 360 asking price index still looks flat: down about 5% for both Modena and Spider from six months ago, but within about 4% of the asking price from three years ago (in fact, about the same as six years ago!). If you bought your car as an investment, this is probably disappointing. If you bought your car to drive, it is amazing to have essentially no depreciation over such a long period of time.

There is a good report on a yellow 2004 360 Spider that sold at auction at Amelia Island for about $90K all in. As always, the Ferrari Market Letter is a great resource if you care about Ferraris. I encourage everyone to subscribe; it is a modest cost compared to the price of our cars, and full of good information.

Hagerty should have their revised market report out at the beginning of next month. It will be interesting to see how they view the market then.

 

Aldous Voice has posted his April Market Watch, and you can find it here:

https://aldousvoice.com/2018/04/06/ferrari-360-market-watch-april-2018/

Others in this thread have noted that the UK market is quite distinct from the U.S. market, and this is good advice. I still find his data interesting and his comments enlightening.

 

I completely agree - but I would suggest that it is more like the 993 in that it was truly the last in a line of a particlur philosophy and mindset. I also believe that the manual versions (and more specifically the coupes) will head higher over the medium to long-term. Let me state my case below:

I started my 360 search at the end of 2016 and only just found one that I purchased. I was being very picky as I wanted a low mileage, berlinetta, low owner, gated shifter in rosso corsa with a fully documented main dealer service history in exemplary mechanical condition. I must have seen close to 25 cars across the UK, Monaco, France, Italy, Germany and Switzerland. I even investigated a few cars in Sweden and the US (Texas, Illinois and Ohio). I was agnostic about whether it was was left hand drive or right hand drive car. Condition and provenance trumped everything else for me as my eye is on the medium to long+term.

I do believe that the 360 is a completely misunderstood car. Yes, the 430 is far superior in terms of power and handling. But that is, in my opinion, what makes the 360 endearing to me. Apart from being the first fully aluminum chassis, body and engine build, in my view it is the last truly analog manual Ferrari. It was a car that was built at the turn of the century with one foot in modernity yet the other firmly planted in the past, nodding with respect to everything that came before it. All you have is a steering wheel and a gear shift. It doesn’t get more raw insofar as a modern car is concerned. No manetino, no LEDs, no displays, no computers - it’s all down to the driver. It’s also not as easy to drive as a 430 - the F430’s e-diff (among other advances) lead to measurable improvements in handling and predictability. The 360 has often been described as being “twitchy” when driven close to the limit. But here again is what appeals to me - not everyone can drive it correctly. It is handed to you on a silver platter. She makes you work for it then rewards you. The truth is that 360s are not twitchy - people just need to learn to drive a mid-engined rear wheel drive car and get the weight transfers executed smoothly. If done correctly, it is an incredibly rewarding experience.

Then comes the looks. At launch and throughout its production it wasn’t particularly appreciated. It was a clear departure from the more aggressive angular lines of the 355 as well as the mid-engined cars of the 70s and 80s. It almost had a “smiley face” front end that was seen as being “soft” in nature. The rear end, in my opinion, is aggressive and means business. It comes across as complete, something that iI feel is lacking with the 430. please note that I am not bashing the 430 - it is an incredible car in its own right. My reason for comparing the two is due to the fact that they were built on the same platform.

My view is that the looks of the 360 have only improved with age. I see the design as throwback to the F cars of the 50s and 60s; full of sexy curves. A sexy, voluptuous lady for lack of a better way of describing her. Whilst clearly different cars (not only reflected in the monumental pricing differential), I can’t help but see 250 LM cues when I look at a 360 Modena; the upper air intakes, the rounded front wings leading prominent perspex covered lights (see the pictures below). This is clearly a comparison that has no base in reality - we are talking apples and oranges - nonetheless you can see the 360’s direct lineage. Maybe it’s just me and I am just talking my own book - but I strongly believe that the design will only become more beautiful (and will be increasingly appreciated and covered) with the passage of time.

The engine - very few people talk about the engine. The V8 power plant was the final iteration and development of the engine that started life as the Ferrari’s F1 power plant of the late 60’s. Whilst delivering a significant increase in power, the 430’s power plant was actually a Maserati engine. The next actual Ferrari engine wasn’t developed until the development of the 458.

Pricing differential vis a vis the Challenge Stradale. In the UK, prime examples of Challenge Stradales are trading well above £200k. In some instances close to £230-240k. That is a huge level of dispersion when compared to its Manual 360 coupe counterpart. This represents a 140-189% premium vs. the average asking price of manual 360s in the UK (c. £83k). There is no question that the Challenge Stradale is a very, very special car. In many ways it shares a somewhat similar aura as the F40. Unlike the Scuderia, Speciale and Pista, it was a race car that was converted into a road car as opposed to the other way around. Nonetheless, there was only a c.30-40% price differential when the manual 360 and Challenge Stradale when they were still being produced. Also, the Stradale didn’t come as a manual. There is, however, a clear reason for the meteoric price rise of the Challenge Stradale - production numbers. There were only c. 1,288 produced. This compares extremely favourably to the c. 1,312 F40s produced. As we all know, rarity leads to desirability. I personally believe that Challenge Stradales will settle closer to £400k over the long+term. Just not imminently as the prices rises for this cycle are in.

This brings me to my last point. Everyone always talks about the significant production numbers of the 360 and why it will never attain classic status nor will it ever become rare. The truth is that prime examples of manual 360 coupes are actually very rare. Many have patchy service histories, high numbers of owners, a significant number have had accident damage as well as poor work and repairs carried out by unqualified repair shops. Clean ones are hard to come by. By saying “clean” I don’t particularly mean super low mileage, low owner, accident free vehicles. Just good vehicles that have had the proper care and attention. Putting that aside however, let’s look at actual numbers. Take these numbers with a pinch of salt - there is nothing official and different sources have various guesstimates - but I think they are in the ballpark:

Global Production of 360s:

360 Modena: 2,630
360 Modena (F1): 6,170
360 Spider: 2,119
360 Spider (F1]: 5,460
Challenge Stradale: 1,288

Total Global Production of 360s: 17,667

As you can see from the numbers there weren’t a whole lot of manuals produced. The same goes for the 430s where there were even less manuals - but for the reasons I mentioned above this discussion is primarily focused on 360s. Not only are manuals not commonplace but reasonable mileage examples are very hard to come by. For many, 360 Modena represented the first disposable Ferrari, unworthy of collector status. They were driven and enjoyed. Furthermore, the onset of the financial crisis resulted in significant price declines that contributed to high ownership, minimal care and high mileage.

Whilst I am cognizant that we have probably seen the peak in prices for this cycle, I genuinely believe that on a 10year basis, prices will be significantly higher than where they are today for the best manual examples. This is a modern classic in the making that represents an important period in Ferrari’s history. All this will be appreciated in due course.

I’ll leave you with an image that, for me, firmly entrenches the 360s place in the family tree.
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Hell of a write up....well said

And here is a pretty nice example for sale -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-360-MODENA-ONLY-18K-Miles-6sp-Gated-Shifter/123091060568?hash=item1ca8cc8758:g:6BUAAOSwGh5a22df

 

great write up!

 

Thanks guys ..

I just re-read my post and as usual I posted without proof reading. When I said “It is handed to you on a silver platter” about driving the car, I clearly meant “It isn’t handed to you on a silver platter.”

 

The 360 is surely one of the most beautiful Ferrari's produced. Love my Italia ,but I do miss my 360!

 

The LM is certainly the car that comes to my mind when looking at the 360.

Watch Barrett Jackson and how many $200,000 mustangs can there be?

Mine was more affordable, more miles, more owners (Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale twice!), and no records. I think it looks pretty good and runs great. It even acquired a set of luggage! If they still allow our dirty gas guzzling cars on the road, they could appreciate. Seems like the 348s are taking off now.

I might hide mine in my father's barn and find it again next decade.

 

Great post, V8. You've articulated the terrific qualities of the manual 360; things I cherish every day after only a few months of ownership. The analog nature of the 360 is what endears the car to me as well. No cup holders, no nav, no infotainment, no cruise control, etc. I still miss my 427 S/C, but this car coddles my ancient bones like the Cobra never could. I do disagree, however, with your point of few previous owners. I am the fourth owner, with 3800 miles. Algar documented the impeccable maintenance of the car, and Mike Tillson did a PPI although it certainly wasn't needed. I met the original owner at a C&C. Terrific guy. (Anytime you have an opportunity to buy one of his cars, grab it!) Now I continue to drive it, even downtown to my office. Enzo would be pleased.

 

Just to clarify when I say few owners, I wouldn’t qualify 4 previous owners as being “high” by any stretch of the imagination - especially for a car that began its first production run 19 years ago. Unfortunately, in the UK and Continental Europe it is not uncommon to find cars that have had 8+ owners with poor maintenance records.

 

There is a tendency of individuals to look at car auction results and the assume their car is worth that amount. What the people are neglecting to consider is that the auction house spends alot of money marketing the cars and maybe even riding its reputation built over decades. Just because an auction house got X dollars for a car doesn't mean that you spending 30 min putting up a advertisement will bear the same results.
What I find interesting is that certain 308s are asking prices higher than 360s and even some 430s. At the end of the day I' don't care were prices go as I bough my car(s) for enjoyment and intend to keep them to the end.

 

Hagerty’s May 2018 valuations have been posted. Brian Rabold writes for Hagerty in its May 2018 “Index of Ferrari” that “the thrill is gone at the top of the market and values are largely holding steady. For now it is more likely that this plateau will linger rather than slide.” The index is largely Enzo-era cars, but his comments ring true for our 360s, too. The May 2018 value for my 2003 Spider F1 is identical to Jan 2018. In fact, values have generally been flat since Sept. 2016 or earlier. Check their web site for their valuation of your particular 360: hagerty.com

The May 2018 Ferrari Market Letter is also out. It has descriptions of four 360s sold in recent auctions, for prices ranging from just under $80,000 to over $130,000. Their asking price index is still basically flat, down less than 5% from six months ago and also three years ago. A subscription is well worth the price: ferrarimarketletter.com

Aldous Voice, reporting on UK prices, writes (for April 2018): “Ferrari 360 asking prices are broadly flat and have been static for all of 2018. However the recent turn of good weather does seem to have brought some buyers out from the cold. . . .” His website is terrific: aldousvoice.com

I took the Ferrari factory tour last week. In the foyer of the engine assembly building they have a cut-away display of a 360 engine. To actually see the five valves per cylinder was impressive – I was so fascinated I almost got left behind by our tour group! The new engines are cool, but I really like our 360s look and sound. It is a great car.

 

Aweome Bob, I hope you took lots of pics! Did you post any here?

 

The factory tour should not be missed! They put a sticker over your phone and don't allow pictures inside the factory gates though for security reasons.

Mike

 

Hi Kevin: Mike is right -- they put a little sticker over both the front and rear camera of your phone. I really wanted to take a picture of the 360 cut-away engine; it was very cool to be able to look inside! But because it was in the engine assembly building, I was not able to do so.

 

The 360 is certainly a beautiful car and I must say I lust after one with great difficulty. As much as I want to buy one, I see folks asking way to much for 360. Dealers looking for $90-110k, there’s even one being sold on this chat for $89k and a manual. Most these cars have been on the market for over 8 months. But with the decline of F430 prices and a ton of them for sale, over 290 of them on Autotrader, it’s easy to get a great example of a F1 F430 for $90k. So how do you justify the 360 prices when you can get into a F430 for few grand more?

 

Look at the prices for 430 manuals. If you must have a manual, and you're on a budget, the 360 sticks are much more attainable. If you're cool with an F1, the 430 is the better choice.

 

Price of a F430 manual makes zero sense, for that money you could be in a 458, the last naturally aspired Ferrari V8 and a hell of a car.

 

...and not a manual. If you want flappy paddles you’re spoiled for choice, there’s plenty of competition. If you want a manual with modern performance, you have relatively few options.

 

It only makes sense if you must have the last manual V8 ever made. If I had the money, I'd take a 430 stick over a 458 at the same price. But I'm an old POS who loves manuals.