Hello everyone, I've been on the FChat forums for a while but never really posted anything. So, my father passed away recently and he left his 360 behind. I am possibly going to keep it. Now, the battery has been draining multiple times and I have been charging it repeatedly. I will replace the battery yes. Is it safe to fully charge the battery, then turn off the battery switch in the front trunk since the car won't be driven in a while? Just wanted to make sure so I don't mess up the car. Thanks!
To unplug the battery means losing all the parameters. can it be done ? Yes but not convenient as you have to reinitialize the ECU each time before driving. Best is to replace the battery and keep it connected to a trickle charger unit such as a CTek or similar. That's what i do ...
Make sure you don't use a 'trickle charger' but instead use a battery maintainer. I think that is what he meant when he suggested a CTek, but a trickle charger will not cycle on/off the way a maintainer will.
Install one of these Battery Tenders... it's very similar to CTek . When you drive , tuck it up under the dash above the passenger foot rest. Amazon.com: Battery Tender 021-0123 Battery Tender Junior 12V Battery Charger: Automotive I have 5 of them for my various cars and also purchased a 16ft extension since for the 360 you need to feed it through the door or crack the window so you can close the door. When I am not driving the car it's always connected since it uses very little electricity and cycles the battery so it maintains memory. . Good luck ...
What's the benefit of having the charger cycle on/off instead of maintaining a safe float voltage indefinitely? With lead-acid batteries, cycling reduces life span.
If you read the literature that comes with the Battery Tender .. it runs through a sensing cycle the 1st time it's hooked up. When I first hooked up the Battery Tender it took 2-3days to stabilize the battery so the light was steady green. It constantly monitors the Battery level and charges as needed. This is what I meant by cycling, it's not continuously charging. Hope this helps a bit ...
I understand what the manufacturer's literature claims, but I am having a hard time understanding what this type of cycling does for the battery. Lead-acid batteries like to be fully charged at all times, especially sealed AGM batteries. When a charger voltage is applied, the current going into the battery is determined by the difference between the charger voltage and the battery voltage. As the battery comes up to full charge, the current will proportionately decrease and will eventually go to zero all by itself. No need for a cycler to turn anything off, it's just Ohms' Law. The battery is essentially self-regulating. Boat batteries are left on continuous float chargers for months at a time without any adverse effects on the batteries. The float charge is needed to compensate for the natural self-discharge of lead-acid, as well as any parasitic loads on the boat. Since my new Ferrari uses the same type of lead-acid technology and has similar parasitic loads, I am trying to understand why it needs this sort of a cycler. If the answer is "because Ferrari", I'll understand.
The Battery Tender (and CTek similarly) essentially are a float type charger versus a constant trickle charger. They do not turn on anything to drain the battery they monitor and sense to assure it stays up to charge as you described. I use them on my boat and all my cars. I have a 11yr old battery in my 1973 that has never been replaced since I have been using the Battery Tender. These are good for Lead-acid batteries.
I think his point was that you shouldn't need a charger that senses because the constant charge voltage should automatically decline as you reach the same voltage as the charger is putting out. I wonder about this as well.
Eleven years is awesome, for either AGM or flooded. It helps if you are very conscientious about hooking up the charger. Lead-acid batteries hate sitting around in a discharged state, even partially discharged. The other enemy is frequent cycling. That's why I questioned the use of a "cycler" as a charger. That just wouldn't make any sense. It would in fact be detrimental to the longevity of the battery. If you are using a classic lead-acid battery charger capable of producing float voltage compatible with your battery model, you are OK. Now, I am convinced you can get that same identical float voltage functionality from a $10 Harbor Freight wall-wart charger, which will work just as well as a fancy $200 CTek with flashing lights, multicolored display meters, iPhone interface and a Ferrari color-coordinated case. Whatever you prefer. But electrically, the battery just wouldn't know the difference. All the extra features are essentially marketing hype (but apparently an effective one ;-) ) So unless someone is willing to show me what I am missing here, I am off to find my 20%-off coupon for the next Harbor Freight parking lot sale. Incidentally, "float chargers" and "trickle chargers" are the same thing, they both produce a constant lower voltage suitable for maintaining a full battery charge. The difference is only in the name.
The other side of the charging equation is the characteristic of the battery. Not all car battery are built the same. The proper float voltage varies significantly based on the brand and construction type of your battery. I'm guessing at $8.99, the HF float charger doesn't have the smarts to varie the charge voltage. See here for more info: FAQ | What are the 3 Stages of Smart Chargers?
But your smart charger can’t determine the type of battery you have either. Don’t believe anyone that tells you otherwise. You have to go to your battery manufacturer’s spec sheet to get the voltage charging table and then hope that your charger outputs those specific voltages. Some chargers allow you to select the exact voltages manually, but those are typically fairly expensive marine chargers not really needed for automotive use. The correct voltage levels are important for bulk, absorption and equalization charging. But since these charging modes are not really needed for daily battery maintenance, it is pointless to have these stages available in a “battery tender” that may be permanently attached to the vehicle. If your battery ever discharges to a point where it does need a three stage charger, it is better to have one high-capacity manually settable portable charger to use with all your vehicles. I’d say most garages have at least one of those. I have three and don’t need another one. It’s also important that this high-capacity garage charger be capable of performing periodic equalization of the battery, where overvoltage is applied for a relatively short period of time to reduce battery sulfation. This charge may be applied once or twice a year and is the only way a battery can be reconditioned (to a certain degree). Don’t believe any claims about battery “rejuvenators and “patented pulsing technology”. They don’t really work. For trickle charging, which is all we need to keep our Ferrari batteries up, the acceptable voltage levels are fairly broad. Basically any charger is likely to work. For instance, I have an Optima Yellow Top that needs a float voltage range of 13.4 – 13.8 volts. Any charger that puts out somewhere in that range is OK and does not need to be smart or expensive. The battery just won’t know the difference. Trickle charging is dirt-simple because with constant float voltage applied, the battery will self-regulate. That’s just the nature of the beast. That’s a charger distributor’s website that tries to convince you to buy a three or four stage (with equalization) chargers as a dedicated battery tender. The point is we don’t need all that functionality in this particular application. All we need is a small one-stage trickle charger.
I'm trying to wrap my head around your argument in just using a float charger and not having a need for a smart charger. Lets say you're in a scenario where you were stuck in a bumper-to-bumper commuter traffic for an hour with the A/C in full blast, listening to your favorite tunes. Hardly the engine reving at more than 2500 RPM. When you got home, the battery is at 80% capacity. You plug in the float charger thinking that it'll charge the battery to 100%, and just as capable as a smart charger. Am I understanding you correctly? I don't see how that can be accomplished, especially when the HF float charger capacity is only rated at 500mah.
The scenario you describe would suggest that there is a problem with the cars charging system. Is this a known issue with Ferraris? Looking at your numbers, the stock Ferrari battery has a capacity of 65 amp-hours. If you start your drive with the battery at 100% and after one hour in traffic you end up with the battery at 80%, you have lost 13 amp-hours. That means that for the entire hour you were in traffic, you were taking net 13 amps out of the battery. But that could only happen if your alternator were dead. If your alternator is working and your car is averaging, say, 2,000 engine RPM during your commute, unless you are running a 2 kilowatt amplifier at full volume, that should be more than enough to supply the power needed to run your car without taking anything out of the battery. A 150 amp capacity alternator should be capable of outputting in the range of 100 amps even at 2,000 engine RPM. If it doesnt, or if this is not enough to run the car, that means the alternator system is inadequate or the regulator is malfunctioning. I have not checked mine while underway, but at idle, the alternator voltage was 14.36 volts. This suggests that it is more than enough to keep a healthy battery fully charged even at low idle. Again, is alternator performance a known issue with the 360?
No, not that I'm aware of and my 360 is running fine. But the scenario that I have given is quite common among the general population due to an old or abused battery. But I'm seeing your point-of-view with much more clarity now. You're assuming that the battery is already charged to 100% capacity. A float charger will do the job in compensating for the self-discharge of the battery. If by chance or on purpose, the battery is at 80% capacity and the float charger maximum supply current is 500mah, then a 13 amps deficit will take approximately 26 hours to charge the battery back to 100% capacity. In contrast, my Granite Digital smart charger which is rated at almost 4AH will charge the battery back to 100% capacity in a little over 3 hours without cooking the battery. That's a big difference in charging time.
I'm pretty sure you don't want a constant voltage trickle charger. Batteries will change their output voltage with temperature and a trickle charger can't account for that. You will eventually overcharge and kill the battery keeping it on a trickle charger. The whole point of a maintainer is that it cuts off for a period of time to prevent overcharging situations, or adjusts its output voltage based on temperatures. A simple trickle charger is good for a quick overnight recharge. A maintainer is for long term storage. Some chargers have both modes, one for battery recovery and one for storage.
I agree. The Ferrari OEM battery charger is about $800.00. I seriously doubt it's just a float charger. This is ONE SEXY kit: Ferrari Battery Charger Kit Tender Schedoni Leather Case 456 599 612 Enzo Zivan | eBay
Haha, that unit is actually notorious for being an outdated and unreliable hunk of junk. It's $800 because it's original equipment and out of production, so people looking to restore their cars to all original have to pay through the nose to get new old stock parts. You can get a quality battery maintainer for under $100.
Go with the Battery Tender Plus!!!!! I installed a screw on connector into the center console that is wired to the battery. No need to remove the battery cover or have a wire/connector dangling into the foot well. Suggestion from the factory.... have the tender plugged into a surge suppressor power strip!!!! I have been doing this for years!!!! Seems that a lot of OEM stuff is crap... fake leather straps, early fuel level sensor, etc...
I feel like I am beating a dead horse, but some of these posts really keep me going. It’s amazing how much fundamental misunderstanding there is about something as simple as lead-acid batteries and chargers. A lot of the people's confusion can be blamed on the marketing strategies of the charger manufacturers and their efforts to somehow differentiate themselves from the next guy. So on the theory that I can't go to bed because somebody is wrong on the internet, here it goes. But I am very sure. To keep your battery topped up, that’s exactly what you want – a constant voltage trickle charger. And as long as your trickle charger output voltage is under the float voltage specification of your particular battery (look up the spec on the web), you can keep the charger on the battery indefinitely. You will NOT overcharge the battery. Don’t believe me? Call the manufacturer and ask them. Or take a look at the charger info website the other poster above you referenced. It’s in the Float Stage 3 paragraph: “The current will also decrease to a point where it's considered a trickle. That's where the term "trickle charger" comes from. It's essentially the float stage where there is charge going into the battery at all times, but only at a safe rate to ensure a full state of charge and nothing more. Most smart chargers do not turn off at this point, yet it is completely safe to leave a battery in float mode for months to even years at a time.” FAQ | What are the 3 Stages of Smart Chargers? Neither does your smart charger. It can’t, unless it comes with a thermocouple probe that attaches to the battery. Does your smart charger have that capability? In any case, it doesn’t really need to. Temperature compensation is only important for bulk and absorption stages, it has no effect at float-level charging voltages because no significant heating occurs due to trickle charging. The point to remember is that when your smart charger enters the float stage, which will be pretty much all the time, it is absolutely no different from a dumb trickle charger. You may believe there is a difference, but the battery doesn’t. That’s just the physics of the thing. No, you will not. You are perpetuating a myth. See above. Actually, most smart chargers do not cut off. See the reference above on smart charger operation: “Most smart chargers do not turn off at this point, yet it is completely safe to leave a battery in float mode for months to even years at a time.” Again, your smart charger does not adjust its output voltage based on the temperature of the battery. Unless it has a temperature probe connected. And in float mode, it doesn’t need to. Sorry, but that’s wrong. A trickle charger is not intended as a recharger, it is intended to maintain a full charge on healthy battery. If your battery is habitually undercharged even after driving for some time, it’s time to get a new battery. Having to depend on a nightly recharge just to be able to use the car is not something I would recommend. It’s going to get you sooner or later. It’s my contention that a battery maintainer should be no more than a float charger. Any other function is either superfluous or dangerous. A batery tender inteded for maintenance does not need a bulk and absorption stages, that’s for big capacity chargers with lots of oomph. And if by “recovery” you mean “battery equalization”, it definitely does not need to have that capability in a built-in charger. That’s just flat-out dangerous. During equalization, high voltage is applied to the battery for a controlled period of time. This is intended to stir up the electrolyte and knock some of the sulfate crystals off the plates. The voltage level and duration are specific to each battery type and should be obtained from the manufacturer. But equalization is a tricky process and should not be trusted to an automated device. Since it’s done only once or twice a year, it can be done manually with an external charger. The battery should be monitored for excessive outgassing or overheating. The other problem with equalization is that not all battery types can be equalized. Many AGM sealed batteries cannot be equalized. Unless your charger has a specific AGM setting and you have confirmed that your battery type can undergo equalization, you are risking ruining your battery. Whichever charger you choose, it’s important that the voltage output matches the specification for your battery. For instance, if your battery specifies no more than 13.8 volts for the float stage and you measure 14 volts, that charger will eventually damage your battery. But if you confirm (with a voltmeter) that it outputs less than 13.8 volts, you can keep it plugged in indefinitely.
