360 Modena Running Rough / Dying

Hey,

I have a 2000 Modena 360 F1 Euro, and for some reason as of yesterday when started it idles at a lower RPM than usual, then dies out. Pressing the gas has little to no effect on the RPM. It had been sitting for a few days, and the temp outside has been in the 40's or so. Anyone got any foresight into what the problem may be before I break down and send it into the shop (2 hrs away)?

-Brendan

 

A. If you are turning the battery off, stop it. It is never supposed to be turned off for other than service reasons.

B. Have your battery tested, I bet it is circling the drain.

C. After you have your new battery installed buy a good (I would go with a Deltran) tender and use it. If you have that $900 factory POS. put it in the garbage where it belongs.

 

YOU MAY HAVE TO BRING THE CAR TO THE DEALER WHERE THEY MAY NEED TO RESET ALL ENGINE CONTROL PARAMETERS. RIGHT NOW THE WAY YOU DESCRIBE THE THROTTLE HAVING LITTLE OR NO EFFECT AND THE ENGINE DYING SOUNDS CHARACTERISTIC OF 360 WITH F1 AFTER THE BATTERY HAS DRAINED REALLY LOW OR COMPLETELY. WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS HAVE THE PARAMETERS RESET BY THE DEALER SO THE MOTRONIC ECU KNOWS WHERE THE TWO THROTTLE POSITIONS ARE, AND A SELF LEARNING PROCEDURE ON THE GEARBOX. I AGREE WITH YOU BUYING A GOOD BATTERY TENDER BUT DO NOT AGREE THAT THE FACTORY ONE IF U DO HAVE IT IS A POS??!! JUST LEARN TO USE IT OFTEN AND IN THE CORRECT WAY.

 

Not really......to any of it.

Throttles learn operational parameters without any outside influence and is stored in hard memory. As to their position, learning that is performed every time the key is turned to the on position. You can see it if you remove the mass meters but watch closely, it happens very fast. The transmission self learn process is not lost with battery voltage. It is in hard memory. In fact all of the trans data is in hard memory. If your dealer has been telling you that those things need to be done because of a low or dead battery someone is being taken for a ride.

The $900 factory battery charger is large, badly designed, the connection is in a bad and inconvienent place, does not work as well or as reliably as a $70 over the counter unit from Deltran and they break constantly. Other than that you are correct it is not a POS.

 

Brian,

How long does the self-learning process take?
What I am trying to ask is how long I should leave the key in the On position after the main battery SW has fliped so the ECU can finish the self learning process compleately. Thanks,

 

My car does the exact same thing (occasionally) after sitting for a few days. When this happens (starting the car and it idles rough), turn the key off and restart the car. The problem goes away. Brian also gets credit for this advice.
BRIAN: Where do I get one of these Deltran battery tenders?
Thanks!

 

Ck the battery tender thread about 3 lines above this. Dave Handa gives a website where it can be ordered for a good price. Pep Boys also sells them. I happen to use the battrey tender plus.

 

The throttle position and range self learn takes place in about 1/10 of a second of turning on the ignition. Everything else they consider self learning is in hard memory. Adaptive strategy and system monitors are lost every time the battery is turned off and Bosch will not say what is required for reestablishment of them. I do know of cars that have been driven hundreds of miles without it being completed. That is one of the reasons the system should not be turned off. Imagine if every night you did a complete system dump on your computer. Next day you reload everything. Only a matter of time before you get corruption etc. You are doing the same to the car by turning off the battery.

 

As always Brian is spot on
Mercedes, and Porsche use very similar throttle actuators as Ferrari and all of them have the same learning process, and will relearn or check themselves with ignition on. You can hear them buzzing or clicking if you are back there. On the odd car that does not learn the actuator position right away, I have had good luck with some thing I read on a Mercedes DTB, and leave the ignition on for about 45-60 seconds, before starting and this seems to "force" them to learn. The software for some reason will not allow the actuator idle position to learn with the engine running, hence the rough idle and lack of throttle response.

 

Agree mostly...

however, I'm amazed how much 360C's put up with having their isolators on and off frequently... the ECU's are programmed slightly differently I know... but even so, a 360C adapts and learns very quickly..

still get frequent one bank start up etc, but always come good quickly...

I've been playing with ECU programming a lot this week... had ecu's swapped between cars a dozen times or more to check various functions etc etc.. (don't try this at home.. I've had immobiliser strategy turned off by chip tuner for this test)... had a few reluctant starts, but all good soon after.