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360 Mods

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by l'esecuzioneItaliana, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. l'esecuzioneItaliana

    Jan 29, 2004
    162
    Anybody have know any way to get more power out of a 360?
     
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  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    53,490
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    Rob Lay
    Moved to technical.
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    There are a miriad of ways to up the power.

    The easiest and most effective quick fix is to remove the cats, and use high octane fuel at all times.

    Fit some hi-flow air filters. Use "deep pleat" type for good filtration without restriction.

    After that, it's gets expensive. The better thing to do is reduce weight, of both car and engine components (flywheel etc).

    Engine component mods are becoming more available, but writing ECU programmes to suit the mods is still hard to find.

    I've just finished a modified 360 engine. The parts were sourced from around the world, including Australia, but they alone cost around $20,000US. Don't know how much more power yet, but perhaps "only" 50-60 BHP. It's now run in and will go on the dyno soon.

    The 360 engine is already very well optimised, and there is only a little room for improvement.

    Turbo's the way to go for serious gains......and expense
     
  5. Prancing_Horse

    Prancing_Horse Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    528
    Arlington,VA
    Full Name:
    Dan
    put a tubi on it
     
  6. l'esecuzioneItaliana

    Jan 29, 2004
    162
    I have a '99 and I wasn't going to worry about it until I found out I want to go faster quicker. I just purchased a Murci so im considering trading my '99 in for a Stradale, they have 420HP and the same amout of torque.
     
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  8. Nick

    Nick Formula Junior
    Sponsor Professional Ferrari Technician

    Oct 31, 2003
    505
    Full Name:
    Nick Scianna
    Your Ferrari 360 Modena 3.6 contains the latest technology ECU that can be re-programmed through the on-board diagnostic port (OBD-II). Specialized software interfaces with your vehicle’s engine management system to extract the electronic code via serial download. Once the information has been read, then you can apply the performance changes and upload the performance program back through the OBD-II port. Installation can be performed by the end user with the serial programming kit and takes approximately 1 hour to complete.

    In standard form, the 360 Modena 3.6 produces 400 hp and 276 lb.-ft.

    Powerchip has a range of chips to suit your car, which can increase it's power to between 416 hp and 420 hp, and it's torque to between 287 lb.-ft and 289 lb.-ft.If you combine that with a light weight free flowing exhaust such as the new Mille Miglia that is on my site, you should see a noticeable improvement gain.

    The price of the Powerchip is USD $2,980.00
    The Mille Miglia exhaust for the 360 is USD $ 2,995.00
    Give me a shout & I can help you out with respect to getting more performance out of your 360 Modena. Powerchips are avail thru me for other models of Ferrari’s including the ENZO. Nick Scianna www.nicksforzaferrari.com
     
  9. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,063
    The twilight zone
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    The Butcher
    You might be able to pull 20 hp with bolt-ons, but after that you need to get serious. The engine is already in a very high state of tune, so I would think that ferrarifixer's estimate of 50 hp is probably close to everything there is to be had if you stay naturally aspirated. For about the same price it will cost you to gain 50, you could add a turbo or blower and pick up 100-200. If it's a street car, I like blowers because they deliver boost at all rpm and there id no lag. If it will spend most of its time on the track, a turbo is probably a better choice.
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    16,238
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    don't bother...not worth the amount of money you need to spend to get minimal gains in power. You'll end up spend 20k just to get what maybe 20hp? 1k per horsepower is not a good investment.

    maybe a better idea is to look for a car that already has mods done to it,and buy the car for less then what its worth because of the mods done to it. Modified F-cars do not command any interest in the market, because most people are afaired to buy a modified anything let alone a Ferrari. You could more then likely buy a modified 360 for less then you can buy a stock one for.

    Just do your homework and be sure it's really what you want to invest your money in. Because it will take alot of just a little..and you may not even notice it.
     
  11. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    Tuning maxed-out normal aspirated car is a pain especially if you want to stay legal – the Stradale feels like it can easily handle much more power so I am looking into what can be done without changing engine internals at the moment.

    - 360 Challenge Stradale
    The CS is the right platform to start with. It has all the improvements of the Modena plus changes to engine such as higher compression and blueprinting.

    - Air Intake Heat
    It seems to be that one of the promising approaches is to go after the heat around the air box. It someone wants to pick the worst possible spot for an air box the 360 location is it engine/cats/exhaust/coolant expansion tank are all close by.

    Reflective foil around the air box and heat shields over cats plus additional air flow into engine bay are the way to go. Relocating the coolant expansion box is also something the race car folks have done.

    - Air Intake Restriction / Volume / Optimization
    Removing the air intake resonator with the 360 Challenge straight intake pipe is an easy modification. It goes well with the replacement of the stock air filters with more free flow ones – I use the Tubi air filters and a RM Racing intake.

    Nets step up is to replace the air box with one that has more volume better flow characteristics. GruppeM sells a carbon air box (“Filter RAM Charger”) – I am skeptical since I have not seen dyno results.

    I like the Michelotto air box design since it enlarges the air intake ducting and the air box volume itself. Hard to say if and in which way they optimized flow – anyhow the box will be hard to come by.

    - Air Flow Meter
    The Bosch MAF has a grill on each side – some folks claim that removing the grills will increase flow – questionable.

    - Headers
    I am not sure if there are any modifications possible especially with the US pre-cat inside the header. For the US moving to the EU header could yield some gain but besides being illegal it also requires an ECU update because the Oxygen sensor is replaced. Some German tuners offer headers however.

    - Main Cat
    Replacing the stock cats with larger,100 cell versions is worthwhile in my view. The trade off is that the cat will not last as long as the stock one – fine by me. Replacing the cat entirely (with straight tubes) would yield more power but will be illegal again and requires an ECU update to avoid check engine light problems.

    - Exhaust
    I am hard pressed to see any improvement that can be done to the Stradale exhaust. It is, once the by-pass valve has open, a straight tube to the end-tip! One could enlarge the tube diameter just in case however. Aftermarket exhausts for the 360 usually optimize sound and not performance and most of the vendors readily admit this.

    - ECU
    Replacing the ECU with a more optimized one is a good option. Most optimize the top-end and increase the RPM. I believe the most area for optimization if in the range around 5000rpm – in my dyno runs this region dips pretty much.

    - Fuel Cooler
    One interesting option is to add a fuel cooler that is connected to the A/C – there is another thread that discusses this.

    Having said all this I agree with what was said about gains before - I am looking for 20HP at max and an improved torque curve.
     
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  13. l'esecuzioneItaliana

    Jan 29, 2004
    162
    Yeah, I mean the 360 is such a good performance car stock. It will be at the track of most the time, seeing how I live in Houston. We have the worst possible streets you could drive a Ferrari on. But anyways, I might get a Koenig twin turbo system so I can blow away all these street racers down here in the pot-hole belt.

    I might make some custom parts. Like a custom exhaust and airbox. I might mess something up, but my friend is a metal sculptor and I think we can do it. Are there any wheels that can reduce weight and still look good? Are HRE's any good?
     
  14. nart2222

    nart2222 Rookie

    Nov 28, 2003
    46
    There are several mods I'm having done to my 360 that improve performance. They are availible from Imola Racing in Germany.

    The best of which are:

    1~ exhaust, headers back

    2~ Fuel Cooling System

    3~ CF Air Boxes

    4~ Exhaust Heat Shielding

    We are expecting gains of approx. 40HP, with another 80 availible with Cams and additional Remapping.

    N
     
  15. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I assume you will be dyno'ing it before and after. Let us know the results!!! I am very interested in Imola's offerings. Thanks!
     
  16. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    do you have spec's/data/pictures?

    where did you get that stuff and who did install it?

    have you driven it for some time and gained experience?

    don't hold back we are an attentive audience and not at all critical :)
     
  17. l'esecuzioneItaliana

    Jan 29, 2004
    162
    Yeah, I mean ive found out you pay a lot for a little. I might get a Koenig twin turbo. And an exhaust and some Koenig racing wheels.
     
  18. nart2222

    nart2222 Rookie

    Nov 28, 2003
    46
  19. thomas_b

    thomas_b Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2003
    765
    never read such threads - so I don't have a clue what has happened

    sharing mod info makes sense to me and having folks going over technical data/perf. claims with a BS detector even more

    there are several folks researching how to improving the 360 platform - your feedback would be valuable since you seem have done your homework - obviously up to you :)
     
  20. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Hmmmm...520 BHP from a 3.6 litre 360 with only camshafts internally, and a few bolt on's?

    Sorry to be the negative one. But make sure you keep the receipts.

    I'll swear that the Michelotto full 360GTC engine without restrictors wouldn't have 500BHP@ 9200rpm. With all the changes, mods and weight saving internally..........and they have engines running on the dyno most days of the week.

    Maybe the German guys use rocket fuel and give you a 500km engine life...yeah, that'd do it.

    Good luck, and I'd be happy if you could humiliate me by proving me wrong, instead of them humiliating (and ripping off) you.
     
  21. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Did you mean "with up to 80hp total available with cams and additional remapping." ?? The article on those Imola mods report 480hp total... not 520hp.
     
  22. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    Does anyone know how much a 360 GT or GTC engine costs from Michelotto? That might be a cool option - CS + GTC engine...
     
  23. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Yes. The engines are 80,000 Euro, give or take a bit. But you cannot buy one (from them) unless you own a Michelotto built chassis to put it in.

    AND, if you try to order much other than an oil filter (special for GT) from them, you'll be black listed for "opening the engine without authorisation", and will never be able to buy parts from the again, for any part of your car.
     

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