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360 Pre-cats

Discussion in '360/430' started by noob, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. noob

    noob Rookie

    Nov 8, 2013
    8
    Canada, Earth
    #1 noob, Nov 25, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
    I have only recently started researching the 360s, and the term pre-cats has kept popping up. Not being a very technical person (when it comes to automobiles), I was wondering if the knowledgeable members here could verify the following statements and provide answers to questions below:

    1. A pre-cat is made from catalytic materials compacted into a pellet and is inserted into each of the exhaust manifolds / headers starting in MY2000.

    2. The primary function of pre-cats is to reduce harmful emissions when the main catalytic converter has not yet reached its optimal operating temperature.

    3. Other secondary effects of pre-cats may include more subdued sound at the tailpipe and slightly less engine power (back pressure?).

    4. Pre-cats can and do break down over time due to temperature and other mechanical forces. Broken pieces may find their way back into the engine cylinders and cause damage that could be expensive to repair.

    5. In MY1999, is there any other way to improve cold-start emission performance (when the car must pass the emission test in the local jurisdiction, for instance)?

    6. In MY2000 and later, what can be done to eliminate or minimize the issue of pre-cat breakdown?
      • Remove the pre-cats physically? (Does this make the car noncompliant with local regulations?)

      • Install an aftermarket exhaust manifold / header? (Do aftermarket products have a better design of pre-cats (or equivalent), or do they not contain pre-cats at all (which makes the car potentially noncompliant as physically removing the pre-cats)?

      • Does stock OEM racing exhaust manifold / header contain pre-cats? If so, does it suffer from the same pre-cat problem?

      • Other methods to prevent the early demise of pre-cats in the stock OEM exhaust manifold / header?
    7. Any other tips / workarounds / cautions surrounding the pre-cat issue?
    I hope that with a better understand of the entire issue, I could make a more informed choice when choosing a MY1999 vs MY2000+ and stock OEM vs OEM racing vs aftermarket exhaust manifolds / headers.

    Thanks.
     
  2. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    3,339
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    #2 RedTaxi, Nov 25, 2013
    OEM racing exhaust is just a cat back exhaust. (I think) So it will have pre cats in the stock manifolds. Without pre cats you will pass emisions tests if the engine is hot. (I think, we don't have emisions tests here)
    Fortunately for me all 360's in my country are euro spec, So no pre cats.
     
  3. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    9,546
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    #3 Skidkid, Nov 25, 2013
    You need to clarify where you live in order to get a decent answer that isn't a dissertation.

    Short answers: Removing cats from headers will violate emissions laws. I don't know of any jurisdictions that do cold start testing so it may go unnoticed. You will still pass emissions testing when it is warmed up.
     
  4. BSU

    BSU Formula 3

    Mar 30, 2008
    1,012
    TX
    #4 BSU, Nov 25, 2013
    As to #5, you do not need to modify 99's to pass state emissions testing.

    However, some 99's have problems setting the OBD monitors (O2S, HTR and EVA) even though they would pass a physical test. This can often be cured by having the ecu's reflashed. Not a huge deal if you know what to look for.
     
  5. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
    Santa Barbara, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike Rambour
    #5 mikeyr, Nov 26, 2013
    1-4 sounds about right.
    5: cold start test ? here in Calif. we take our Ferrari's for a Italian tune-up and get them to the smog station while they are good and hot, no issues with MY99 cold tests, there is no such thing here.
    6-7: you have to have the pre-cats to pass, you can "sneak" by without them if the car is hot but technically its not legal since you removed smog equipment.

    In a few months my MY 99 360 will have to pass smog again, I will let you know if there are issues. Last time (almost 2 years ago) I had big issues, not because it failed the tailpipe sniff test but because ODBII monitors were not on. ECU Reflash appears to have cured that issue but I will wait until my smog test to confirm it. If that ECU reflash really fixes it...it confirms what everyone knows which is that the 99's are the best year :) (at least with a 2004 TCU in them, they are)
     
  6. jpk

    jpk Formula Junior

    Oct 29, 2012
    803
    Los Angeles, CA / Henderson, NV
    #6 jpk, Nov 26, 2013
    From what I've gathered from my mechanic and the relative rarity of posts on the issue with 360s in this forum, the precats rarely fail on the 360. So pre-emptive replacement of the headers on a 360 is not a requirement. Just check the headers on any car you purchase for signs of leaks or cracks and if they are are OK, you are fine.
     
  7. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    #7 English Rebel, Nov 27, 2013
    +++ on that. BTW did FNA charge for the re-flash and did your dealer have to remove it (them?) to send off?
    ThanksA
    Alan
     
  8. mikeyr

    mikeyr Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    2,154
    Santa Barbara, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike Rambour
    #8 mikeyr, Nov 27, 2013
    Did not have to send them off, not sure on the cost I will look tonight when i get home, the total was $1,800 but that included lots of parts replacement like plugs, 02 sensors, etc. while they "tried" to fix the problem, not sure they itemized the re-flash on the receipt. I think its normally a couple of hundred dollars just for the re-flash.
     
  9. tr328

    tr328 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2003
    905
    Pacifica, California
    Full Name:
    Darryl
    #9 tr328, Nov 27, 2013
    My 1999 360 passed smog a few months ago here in California. I went on a 45 minute drive and drove straight to smog station and it passed.
     

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