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Discussion in '360/430' started by ZINGARA 250GTL, Nov 17, 2003.
Well said, I could not agree more.
Well said Michael.
Sorry to break the news guys, but few people on this board, if any, have the relationship that Jim has with Ferrari folks. I'd wager his numbers are the ones that are correct. I looked into a 360 after my Porsche was totalled and I have to admit the prices were high until you show up to the dealer with a check.
Admittedly Allan may have some abrasive comments, but he is usually right on the money and nothing speaks louder than experience. I remember a thread in which people were talking about absurdly high prices and there were a few who agreed. Soon after in a different thread, a gentleman was thinking of making a purchase and the prices he got quoted were sticker price, and FMV for a used model.
I think a lot of people are getting suckered into buying at a premium because of their inexperience with exotic car purchasing. So, if you haven't bought a bunch of exotic cars to learn or have been unsuccessful, I suggest learning how those who can attain the lower prices have done so. If I were you guys I wouldn't be calling BS, I would be asking "How, where, when, etc" (which some of you have.)
As for F1 adding more value...I have been told that this is slowly changing. The unreliability, cost of repair, and time to repair the transmission has many people scared and opting for the 6 speed. This I don't know for sure, again, second hand information from a broker.
Second hand information from a broker? Try checking Ferrari's production figures. The F1 orders far exceed the 6-speed orders. This hasn't changed.
As for Allan's pricing, everyone talks about these cheap Spiders. Show them to me. Things change when you walk in with a check? Sure they do, but not to the tune of $180K.
I have personally done a ton of research this year on Spiders before finally purchasing the one I own. The cheapest car that I negotiated for (matching my criteria with less than 5000 miles, F1, mint shape, etc.) was $194K. The car was a 2001, with fairly light options. That same car was sold for $195K about a month later. I opted to purchase a more expensive car that had more options on it, and better matched my color preference. This is factual data. If anyone else wants to share some actual data, post it. No sense saying "I heard this from Joe Blow", or "according to a Broker friend..."
Until we set up a database of asking price/true selling price/condition we will never really know the truth about the delta between asking/selling price.
The broker part was only referring to the F1 transmission. Also, it is irrelevant what the production figures are. We are talking secondary market. Calm down. Take a few deep breaths and when you're serious contact Jim and if he feels so inclined to help, you'll get yourself a good price.
Right now Carriage House is offering a 2000 360 coupe FI 6466 miles in Yellow/Bordeau Asking 139,900. They've listed this car for a while.
They also have a 2001 6sp Spyder black/ bordeau 2417 miles Asking 207,900. These may not what you're looking for but they are real cars and real asking prices.
I stopped to help a disabled F1 360 not long ago. It had run about 20 miles since dealer service to repair.
I gave him my towing service phone number, and left in my 308.
Shifting my tranny all by myself.
As i said, my Uncle just recently went into a dealer, the same dealer he went to about a year and half ago, and paid sticker for a brand new 360 6 speed, just bought a brand new 360 Spider, and PAID sticker. It is a U.S. car. I will have the car for 10 days in December.
You guys really need to realize in your negotiating, that a dealer selling a 150 or 200,000 car does not have a 5 or 10,000 profit margin, but sometimes even a 50,000 profit margin, or more. They must be prepared for a downward turn in price, holding the car for some time, etc. Ive bought cars for 1/2 of what the owner was asking.
Lets see I buy about 10 different cars every year, hey its my hobby, I'm not much for golf. I usually keep 7 or 8 at a time. Yes prices do change when you have a check or cash in hand ( my experience 2 to 10k), but I really doubt some of the low numbers people come up with. Dealers know what they can get for these cars, my local dealer still has 85 people on the waiting list for 360's. I talk to dealers from one coast to the other, not just Ferrari dealers, sometimes I see a car I like so I'll call and say I give you this for it, maybe 1 out of 15 times they say yes, and yes they know I'm a serious buyer. Usually I find out they got real close to what they wanted for the car, may have taken alittle longer than hey thought but they got. So who is right here probably all of us, remember a good deal is nothing more than a state of mind.
If anyone is looking for a 2003 black/red 360 spider 6sp. With under 500 miles PM me. The owner is asking $230. The car is perfect.
What part of this do you doubt? As for Allan's uncle I'm don't doubt that at all. There has never been a waiting list for some customers nor do they ever pay over MSRP.
Which dealer did your uncle buy his car from?
I dont know Allan, I do think that 01 spider (now a three year old car and still over sticker by 20k or so) is where the market is, as for the Yellow car, I wish them luck, I'm sure someone will find that appealing. I have never paid over sticker for anything, as to waiting list, yes been there Ferrari does thing different, if your a dealer you wait for a build slot that is for a six speed, spider, F1 coupe and so on.
As for a 2000 coupe US car in good shape under $125,000, sorry I just do not buy that.
What is the wager?
So, basically, you never bought a 360, just showed up to the dealer with a check?
I showed up to several dealers with a check. They wouldn't budge by more than about $3k - $5k on price. Which dealers did you show up to?
As I understand it, all 360 production is spoken for up to a year before a car is produced. Furthermore, each 360 is to each customers order spec. So, how does one just walk into a dealer and buy one off the showroom floor, such as your uncle?
In regards to your uncle, if he has a very strong relationship with his dealer and he is getting cars that other buyers fell through from following through with, it really is not representative of current state of affiars for most other buyers. Most buyers don't have a relationship with a dealer and must either wait on the list or buy at market value. The stories of the "guy that just walked in and bought new at retail" are very far and few between and 99% of the time there is a whole lot more to it behind the scenes, such as friends with the dealer or long-time customer who bought $$$ in the past.
Your absolutely right! He must of just gotten "LUCKY" TWICE!
James, with all due respect, a yellow car with red interior is not going to be representative of what 360 values are. It is a god-awful color combo that nobody wants, and is priced accordingly. The spider also has the red interior which is not helping it at all. What we need are price comps of "realistic" cars, not one off abominations.
Can you expound on where he bought it, what his relationship was with the dealer, was it an authorized dealer, were they cars that customers decided not to buy?
I know people who have won the lottery twice, so anything is possible. There are 1500 members on this board, how many have 360's and how many have just happened to walk into a Ferrari dealer and let alone seen a brand-new 360 on the showroom floor, benn offered a brand-new one for MSRP with no wait?
I say whoever can buy these cars for the lower prices, well I guess they are the lucky ones. This starting to sound like that old fish story about I caught a fish this big.
You are quite correct. That said IMHO prices of everything are coming down. The Black spyder isn't too ugly and asking 207 not is not asking 240. As for walking in and buying one without a wait at MSRP. I agree that that only occurs when someone has a good relationship. I've also found that being known as someone who buys cars to use not to resell also helps.
I can tell you from personal experience that brand new spiders are very expensive and almost non-negoitable I just bought my Black 2003 spider with f1 and delivery miles for 232K. This included all the popular options. Unless you've bought one recently perhaps one should not speculate too loudly.
Here is a low mile black US 360 spider that has been on for a while at buy it now 195 with no takers. Anyone that is spending 220 or more for 360 spiders now are paying way too much. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442060772&category=6212
I just bought and sold a 355 within the last 6 months and just purchased a 360 today. Most cars that are priced below the market have a story. I recently found a 2001 360 Coupe that was an F-1 with many options and 3K miles. The car appeared to be gorgeous and in mint condition. The dealer had the car advertised for $169K. After a lot of negotiation the dealer came down to $159K which I thought was still a bit high. Ultimately the price was lowered to $150K. When I went to see the car it looked nice, but upon a thorough exam, it had been in a very bad accident. The carfax was clean but I was able to trace the car back to the original owner who confirmed that the car was almost totaled. So the seemingly good car at $150K would be worth much less when sold to an unsuspecting buyer. You get what you pay for.....