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360 prices

Discussion in '360/430' started by ZINGARA 250GTL, Nov 17, 2003.

  1. scott63

    scott63 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    393
    Jeff,

    The black spyder is a 2001 and a 6 speed. Add another $5K to $10K for the F-1 and you are at $205K. The higher prices you see at $220-$230 are for 2003 cars. The difference can be explained by both mileage and extra warranty coverage.
     
  2. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan

    All of my uncles cars are red/black 6 speed. That is the color combo he likes best. No relationship to the dealer other than that from the first 360 he purchased. Also, authorized dealer.
     
  3. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    If you want to see what the real depreciation is of that 360 Spider that someone just purchased, ask them to take it back the dealer and see what they will buy it back for.
     
  4. Avia1

    Avia1 Rookie

    Nov 14, 2003
    44
    I've been reading this thread with much interest. Our dealership has bought and sold numerous 360 coupes and spiders from the crazy days of 99-00 to the dead slow days of late 03, oh yeah that's now. I'm not sure how the dealers are doing in the states but I know that in Canada the luxury car business is dead quiet. We're hearing the same thing from our US counterparts as well. Dealers have enough stock in most cases, don't want to write checks for cars unless they "steal" them or have them sold. A dealer friend just bought a fully jammed 01 S500 in a good color with equivalent of 35K. mi. for $55K CDN. Like Allan said, dealers don't know how long they're going to have to sit on a car so they have to buy right.

    Realistic Retail Used Numbers: (In Canada)
    2003 Coupe - $225K CDN
    2002 Coupe - $215K CDN
    2001 Coupe - $205K CDN
    2000 Coupe - $195K CDN
    1999 Coupe - $185K CDN

    Even at these prices there's no guarantee that it's going to be a quick sale.

    We just bid a low mileage 2001 Spider F1 at $250K but we don't want it because were worried about it not selling very quickly.

    I think there are deals out there to be had on luxury and exotic cars but you have to look in the right places. The Ferrari dealership is never the right place to look if you're looking for "well-price". Remember, there are two types of buyers our there, the ones that like to get a good deal and don't need all the frills and the others that need to be "stroked" by the dealer, enjoy the showroom experience and pay full price. Which one do you want to be?
     
  5. solly

    solly Formula 3

    Jun 2, 2001
    1,140
    Westchester NY
    Full Name:
    Dr. Steven S.
    I just had an offer of close to 200k from a local dealer for my 360 spider (2001). This is still quite higher than the current model's (2003) MSRP. Presumably the dealer knows what he can sell it for, and the market is strong, with a long waiting list. If your uncle can just walk in and buy a new 360 Spidfer for MSRP then there is something very unusual about the deal. Is he close friends with the owner?
     
  6. Here is a proposal:

    With the plethora of claimed low-ball deals on various 360s, why don't the people that "know" of these cream puff, no stories cars, share the information with the potential buyers on this site . These so called Mavins could charge a small amount for his "knowledge"/service and it is a win/win for everyone. Sounds as if these market experts know where all the low priced immaculate cars are, yet have no intention of purchasing the cars themselves. Turn your "knowledge" in to cash.


    "Knowledge is Power. Empower yourself."
     
  7. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    Same goes for almost any exotic. You're only kidding yourself if you think the 360 is the only car that depreciates. Look at the Murci. Does the depreciation make it any less of a car? No.
     
  8. rodsky

    rodsky Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2003
    1,601
    Los Angeles
    James and Allan - The 2000 is basically an unattractive color combo for $140K. That's an OK deal. Now that number is $5-10K below where Scott said a 2000 should be. Probably a reflection of the color combo. When I buy my 360, you can rest assured it will not be yellow/burgundy even if Ican get it for $10K less.

    The Spider is 2 years old and $20K over sticker.

    If someone with a check in hand could walk into a dealership and buy a 2004 360 coupe for sticker why would anyone buy these cars?

    Perhaps Allan's uncle is such a great customer or you are so connected that that may be true. But that is not reflective of the marketplace today. The waiting list is closed for 360's. If a dealer wanted to move one at $10K over sticker, all they have to do is call the first person on the list and start the process.
     
  9. rodsky

    rodsky Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2003
    1,601
    Los Angeles
    Allan do you understand wholesale and retail? Why dont you try and do that with any car in general and report back to us. It may be educational for you too.
     
  10. rodsky

    rodsky Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2003
    1,601
    Los Angeles
    No - he has pictures :)
     
  11. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2002
    3,233
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Here is another decent price 1999 coupe F1 8k miles silver for 125khttp://www.prestige-motors.com/home.cfm?file=current&page=3&id=1143
     
  12. AJF1

    AJF1 Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    93
    NJ
    Full Name:
    AJ
    Jeff,

    I know the former owner of that car, its a euro with no options. The dealer purchsed the car for 110,000 during the summer if I remember correctly.
     
  13. rodsky

    rodsky Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2003
    1,601
    Los Angeles
    Another bordeaux interior. If this is a Euro, its not a great deal for a 1999
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Some of you may remember the arguement Art and I had a while back about the stock market. Keeping that in mind I'm "short" 360's as well as every production exotic, luxury, and regular car existant. The days of having to pay up for anything that is not a true collectable are going to go away for a long time.
     
  15. Avia1

    Avia1 Rookie

    Nov 14, 2003
    44
    But if all these 360s are so hot, why are there over 120 of them in the dupont and 20+ of them are 03 spiders? I think you're going to see lots of 04 360 slots open up with the 420 modena coming in 05. I'd be pretty scared buying an 04 or 03 360 at or above list. Look at what 99 355 spiders are trading for. And to those speaking of a line-up 100 + deep at dealerships, most those in line can't actually write a check for the car. Do you think Mr. #100 is really going to say yeah I want to be the 100th guy on the list when I can buy a used 01 or 02 and be driving it today for reasonable money? To the guy who's local dealer offered him $200K for his 01 spider, take it and run. If an 03 spider is listed for $220K retail in the Dupont that means they're buying them for $205-210K, an 02 $195-205K, 01 $185K-$205K. It's all about supply and demand and the supply seems to be outweighing the demand in most cases.
     
  16. scott63

    scott63 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    393
    The 01 Spyders at $205K are still selling for $25K over sticker and the car is 3 years old. The market has softened a bit which means cars new 360 Spyders are only selling for $40K over sticker instead of $50K over....
     
  17. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan

    Absolutely not! All cars depreciate. Ferraris do it, Lamborghinis do it etc. Ferrari 360 prices just ruin it for the real enthusiast who wants to keep the car. They lose every penny they paid for over price inflation, plus all the depreciation.

    As for the dealer offering almost 200k for a Spider, thats great, because :
    A. they have an immediate buyer who will purchase so they have nothing to lose or
    b. They will overinflate the price of the car they will be selling substantially.

    Funniest thing when people would come into the dealer, and demand a certain price for their car. The dealer would raise the price of theirs, bump their trade, and then the people walked out thinking they got a good deal.
     
  18. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,330
     
  19. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,371
    Allan, for your information i just sold my 03 spider back to dealer and got $220K for it. i think you sould rethink your statement.
     
  20. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    How does the price "ruin it"? I can't understand what you are trying to say. A car is worth what a buyer is willing to pay. Regardless of MSRP, regardless of what the dealer is asking, and regardless of the advertised price. The fact of the matter is that the 360 has been in huge demand. Granted, the demand is declining now, but that is due to several factors -- mostly the 5 year old design and economic market conditions. If someone decides to pay a sick premium for a car, then do you think they care about losing a chunk of money? We're not talking about people that collect food stamps. Personally, I didn't pay much over MSRP for my Spider, but it took a solid 12-18 months to find the right deal.
     
  21. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,485
    Grandview NY
    Full Name:
    Herr Prof.
    After watching this thread for a while, it seems to me that some of you guys are overthinking this thing. First, the 360 spider seems to be the most desirable of the current Ferrari range, given its obvious attractions and "relative" (compared to the Enzo) affordability. Its "street" price remains high partly because there is not a huge production of them, compared to others, like Porsche, and since what has been allotted for production and delivery is already spoken for thru the infamous "lists."
    (More about that later).

    There do seem to be alot of these cars for sale with virtually no mileage, ie. flipmobiles, which appear to be bought by people speculating on a 40k dollar profit, in league with dealers who would otherwise have very little "new" inventory to offer. The dealers participate financially in these flips which encourages them to take the cars back from their annointed buyers, but they don't have their money at stake in this inventory. The cars have been funded by their first buyers, so the dealers really don't have to move this stuff at lower prices; it costs them little (other than the oppportunity to take a profit) to let the car sit at a high oversticker price. (This is not true of independents or even authorized dealers who are buying the cars on the open market, but i suspect a great number of the "new" oversticker inventory resides at authorized dealers thru the flips described above). Note also that Carriage House is determined to undercut Miller in the Greenwich market and probably operates on really narrow margins. (When i talked with the owner a few years ago, after he started his Ferrari business, he assured me that he was only trading in US market cars; dunno if that has changed).
    Having said all of that, i have no doubt that certain people with good relationships at the dealer or manufacturer level can always get a car, without regard to the waiting list, at sticker. But that privilege does not extend to others, no matter how unfair that seems.

    So, if you do not have that kind of relationship with the dealer and manufacturer, you are either going to get stuck on a list or pay over sticker.
    The thing that puzzles me in all of this is that, while there are some who swear they will never pay "over sticker" they do not have the ability to get the car any other way. There is a reason why people pay these premiums. I would rather have the car, and enjoy it at a price, than carp over whether the market is skewed or being unrealisticly portrayed
    while presiding over an empty garage slot. Folks, we are talking about expensive, exotic cars that have real demand within a limited niche of well-monied individuals. For every one of you who thinks that paying 205k or 215k for a 180k car is an outrage, there is someone else who can easily regard that premium as a necessary price of entry. So, its like complaining that such and such restaurant charges 3 time the value of a vintage bottle of burgundy. That may be true, but where are you going to find that bottle otherwise? And, while you can enjoy a nice sparkling water with your meal, there are many who won't even think about the pricing structure of the wine list when they order their meal.
     
  22. todd

    todd Guest

    May 20, 2003
    114
    fresno
    Full Name:
    todd spencer
    I agree with whart. I gladly paid over the MSRP to get my 360 spider last month and I never thought twice about the price. As Mr Hart indicates the cost of living well is expensive but, alas, it is a neccessity.
     
  23. johnw

    johnw Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2002
    438
    toronto
    Full Name:
    john

    that's far and few between. call most dealers and you will take a 20% hit on an 02 modena and a 10-15% hit on an 02 spider.

    there are LOTS of cars around. the wholesale prices are dropping fast.
     
  24. johnw

    johnw Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2002
    438
    toronto
    Full Name:
    john
    todd, i hope you didn't pay too much over list. a few phone calls and you could have easily had one at list or an 02 underlist
     
  25. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    How does it ruin it? Very simply. I bought my Sv, planning on keeping it, for a long time. If the same Ferrari enthusiast wants to buy a 360, and plans on keeping it, pays way over sticker, he loses 10X more. Look at the fools that paid $325,000+ for Spiders, they are now atleast 150-175,000 in the bucket.
     

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