360 Questions

Wow lots of questions. I'll answer a few and let others chime in.
Some don't like the F1 gearbox because of a.) its added complexity and/or b.) because they are purists and like to shift themselves. Having said that -- yes reverse does slip the clutch but in normal use -- backing out of your garage or a parking space it's only active for a few seconds. It's not recommended to reverse up an incline though.
Electric seats were an options as were Daytonas. Some think that the Daytonas are not as comfortable as the standard seat. Heated seats are not available and would be difficult to retrofit.
500 miles a week is a fair amount and you will rack up miles in a hurry which means higher maintenance. I would keep your Prius for that. I am retired so mine is a daily driver but there again I don't drive every day. One thing to be aware of is where you park. I tend to park as far away from others as possible.
Stock (factory Pirelli PZeros) I believe are all season. I just purchased a new set of Michelin Pilot Sport and they are all season.
I believe that MY 2003 was the first with the newer TCU that where the PIS can be set. I changed mine for one that was flashed with the firmware from a CS and I love its shifts as well as reducing clutch wear. Make sure that you get a PPI and have the clutch wear checked as a new clutch can run $4-5k.
By all means post a want ad here on FChat. Also check Jakes cars (he's a sponsor) as he always has a good collection for sale.
Hope that helps.
Alan

 

I belive some of you guys, think Ferrari clutches are out made of pudding...I have been reversing uphill with my 360, now with my F430 and on my 360 never ever changed my clutch and on my F430 I now have almost 50K and still running on my original clutch.

The only thing you should avoid are drag races and LC (launch control), both practices really killers...but on 360 you do not have LC button..

IMHO opinion you should buy the car you like, don't worry about clutch life and enjoy your Fcar

 

I don't know if I would keep the 360 as a daily driver for 500 miles a week. I do about 100 a week or 10k miles a year and I probably COULD do it.. but to be frank its cheaper having a second car and using it as much as possible. That will probably be the most expensive daily driver you could possibly have. City driving, stop and go will wear down the clutch alot faster than highway driving. Your prius is as optimal as possible for city driving and stop and go traffic. I'd a get a second car even if its a $500 beater 1986 Passat.

Reverse on a flat surface isn't going to be that bad. The reason they say don't reverse up into a driveway up a hill is the Computer slips the clutch to provide the slow reverse. Up a hill will cause it to slip excessively and wear prematurely.

As far as tires, I use cheapie Hankooks. Good for cruising but less than optimal for cornering. Nice all season performance.

Service budget: A $800 to $1600 for a yearly fluid change. About $1500 to $3000 every 3 years for belts. Up to $3000 - 7000 for the clutch replacement as needed. F1's approx what? 30,000 miles or so?

Its a reliable car, and mine has been certainly reliable. More so the more I drive it. But.. I don't know if I'd enjoy driving her in the rain and sleet. I don't know if I'd trust the windows not to leak the same way I trust a Porsche or Mini... They're good, but the regulators are prone to needing alingment with alot of use IMHO.

 

You have some good answers here. I would add that maintenance costs about $3000 per year but it comes as 1K, 1K, 3K, 10K, ... It isn't if the car will throw a 10K bill at you but when. I tell people 'You don't have to like it you have to be able to pay it.'

I use my car as a DD but I work from home so it still doesn't get that many miles. There are several problems with using a Ferrari as a DD.
1) When something needs repair the car can be tied up for a week or a month and sometimes longer. Sometimes parts aren't readily available and you wait. That means you get a rental car for the month OR you have another car.
2) Minimal ground clearance makes every driveway a challenge, you will drag a lot and there are places you will get there and just have to park and walk a few blocks or not go because you can't get into the driveways. Speed bumps in parking lots are the same problem.
3) Often there is little/no parking or the only space is the one next to the giant SUV that is parked on the line. You would think that people would be careful but you would be wrong. I have seen them rest their door against my car and get in and out of their car multiple times. Just saying.
4) People are careless and sometimes vindictive. How are you going to feel when you come out to find the the guy pulled in or out and rubbed your bumper? Or maybe they rubbed when parallel parked. I have had people park so close that you can't get into the car.

Then there are all of the little issues like ease of ingress/egress (long doors make this more difficult), water leakage around the window seals, dash shrinkage from the sun, rain falls inside the car when you open the doors, etc. All of these make it more difficult to use as a daily driver.

The others are correct. If you are driving that much you need another vehicle. Lots of great lower cost choices for the city. How about a used Mini?

 

I drive mine daily. I drive it to work daily but work for me is only 7.8 miles each way so I don't put that many miles on the car. Over the last 2 years, averaged 600 miles per month of just driving to work, grocery store, dinner, movies, etc., put some 1,000 mile trips on the car during that time also.

I do worry about my clutch when I reverse but I drive daily so I can't avoid it, I have lost about 30% of my clutch life in 16,000 miles according to the SD2. I minimize my time in reverse when possible but if I have to park on a hill, I do it, I don't avoid a parking spot just to save the clutch. I will park away from momy wagons when possible but if no other spot, i park there too.

Tires are fine in the summer and I had no serious issue with them in the light snow but the F1 really SUCKS in the snow.

$1k/year for 2 years and then a bigger bill on 3rd year is the norm. So I budget $300/month for my maintenance and for maintenance I have more than I need. However my car is higher mileage 360 so I am replacing worn parts and I have had quite a few high repair bills in the last year or so, not part of normal maintenance and nothing broke but just worn out. Front suspension mostly but I also had to do belts this year and they were only 2 years old because the original cam seals (based on receipts) from 1999 were leaking so bad. If you do the belts, do the dammed seals !!! I didn't own the car when the belts were last done or I would have. Also had to replace the worn out rattly muffler. All things that are not normal maintenance.

The model year is a big issue to some, not a issue to others, I really cant help there as I have the best of both worlds. I have a 1999 with no pre-cats to worry about and a 2004 TCU thanks to a previous owner who installed a stupid amp in the trunk and messed up the wiring so bad it fried the TCU (cost a previous owner $8k to fix it).

The challenge grill is a rear radiator grill, just a grll with lots of holes for air movement, I really thought it was a cosmetic thing and I prefer the painted panel but my new exhaust gets really hot and I now know it really does help cool the engine compartment, does it really do anything besides make the owner feel good about cooling off some of the electrical components in the back, is up for debate, engine of course still runs at same temp. There are front challenge grills if you have more money to spend but that one is strictly cosmetic, it serves no purpose except to make your wallet lighter.

Hill Engineering has a good reputation for after market parts.

I looked all over for my 360 but I bought it here on F-Chat.

Get a Griggio Alloy car and not a Red one if you want to TRY and be discreet (it wont work).

 

I used my 360 as daily driver in Southern California. Put on 10000 miles in 1 year. Clutch was 4% worn at the start and 4% worn after 10000 miles and I live on a steep hill. It worked just like a normal car and had no problems.

 

I'm currently looking at 360's too. I find threads like this very informative, especially noting the wide variety of expereiences.

 

I think the idea of daily driving is better than the reality. It sure is for me, you wont want to get a black car if you are fussy about it's appearance. Reasons not to take it after you just spent three hours primping it seem to pop up. I like the car to look like it is ready for a car show every time I open the garage but of course that is my particular kink. YMMV

If you are new to sportscars, as I was, it will take you a lot of time in the saddle to get used to the car anyway so daily driving it at first is a really smart idea but my guess is that after a while you will want to treat it better and so another mode of transport that is ready is a good idea IMO

 

A Ferrari is a second car. Period. You will need a regular car for daily use because a Ferrari is an exotic and the ownership experience is just not the same. As said above, the 'normal' maintenance can still have your car out of commission for weeks at a time.

If you want a 'high-end' performance car that can also be a daily driver, I highly recommend a Porsche. I hate Porsches, but they offer an ownership experience more inline with expectations of someone looking for a daily driver.

That said, if you still insist on going down this route, you can find the answers to most of your other questions on this forum and in the sticky on 360 purchase at the top of this forum.

For all season tires, Michelin and Continental make a true all-season that fits the stock 360 wheel. The Pirelli PZeros are definitely not all season. It is not recommended to drive a Ferrari other than the FF in inclement weather. Even wet roads can cause you problems, especially if you are coming from a front wheel drive auto hybrid to a rear wheel super car.

 

True that, it can be a handful in the rain. I have PZeros and it can hydroplane pretty easily and you just don't have the grip in the wet.

 

+1

 

This may sound flippant or insulting but its not intnded.. Look, just have $10k around if you need it. It can be in an account chilling, just in case. If you don't have this or aren't in a place here you have $10k available without being evicted or being in serious financial distress, just hold off until you do. Don't fret all these misc expenses, $10k on the side should take care of most of these things you'll encounter.

 

I think your advice is sound and I'll chime in at the risk of sounding rude. Just like the guy who was asking about the price of a huge yacht. The salesman said, "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it".

Of course, owning a Ferrari isn't quite like that and I confess to doing some pretty careful research about expected costs before purchasing mine. I think everyone contemplating owning a Ferrari should do some sort of honest evaluation of potential costs vs ability to pay.

But I certainty didn't get down to trying to analyze the cost vs the longevity of various brake pad compounds or various tire brands and it worries me a little bit to see someone trying to nail down the exact future cost of owning a used Ferrari by getting too far into the nitty-gritty of the "what if" game.

I agree with your advice; i.e. make sure you can afford to buy the car and maintain it properly (either yourself or by hiring someone to do the work). And then have a "wad" of cash available for surprises. It's OK to grit your teeth when a 10 or 20 grand bill presents itself, but if you absolutely couldn't stand that kind of shock to your wallet, best to think about owning something other than a Ferrari.

 

Agree with everything said in this thread. The 360 is an amazing car but I would really not enjoy having to dd it. It can be a pita wrt to unwanted attention at times, ground clearance, visibility and fitting in tight parking next to monster suvs, and expensive maintenance and clutches. You definitely want to at least upgrade to a 2002 or cs tcu for much better clutch longevity and performance, but i see little reason to require a 2002 or newer car if a 99 to 01 is available to your satisfaction. Definitely don't stretch budget too much to ruin the experience with stress, and do have another dd for bad weather and boring stop and go commutes or long road trips.

 

Too many trade offs and headaches for a daily driver IMHO.

 

Noob, are you an engineer by any chance? Looks like you have been reading and taking notes.

I will probably buy my first Ferrari around April of next year. I have narrowed my choices down to a Testarossa or 360. From the research I have done, any year 360 will work with the F1 transmission. 1999 has the advantage of not having pre-cats. 1999 through 2002 had the earlier TCU with 2003 through 2005 having the later "smart" TCU. I would buy the example that has the features you want, regardless of year, and upgrade to the CS TCU. Upgrading the TCU is not a requirement, but I think it would be worth the quicker shifts and longer clutch life.

Just my thoughts after reading and looking for the past two years. Current owners can give you the best advice based on their real life experiences, of course.

 

Lets clarify that. A previous owner butchered the wiring harness installing a amplifier in the trunk. The car was then towed to a Ferrari dealer and it was $8k to get the car back, this was in 2005. The dealer installed a brand new 2004 TCU at Ferrari pricing and also fixed to some extant the wiring issues. A TCU is not $8k, but this was extraordinary work and it was at Ferrari prices.

I have 2 more receipts from next owners at Ferrari dealerships mentioning amateur radio installation causing electrical hiccups. "Amateur Installation" is the wording they used, they cut wires all over the place.

7 years later the car still had electrical gremlins from them cutting up the wiring harness. After I removed the amp and went as close to stock as I could with all the cut wires, car has been fine, no more issues.

 

The advantage of the 99 MY is that it doesn't have the pre-cats in the exhaust manifolds. The later model years can have the pre-cats break up and the debris could get into the cylinders. Slightly better performance but probably not noticeable.
Alan

 

IMO $86 is highish for an 01 (and the 99 is the only MY without the pre-cats). I purchased a re-flashed CS TCU for around $1,500 and had my dealer install it and set the PIS. I use mine as a daily driver but as I'm retired I don't drive every day. I go to the grocery store, Lowes, restaurants, etc and although it's a pain in stop-and-go traffic it's okay around town.
Alan

 

I'm retired, so I don't have to go to work each day. But, of course, there are plenty of times I'm obligated to be somewhere and I sometimes haul stuff which simply wouldn't fit in a Ferrari. That's why I need a DD. I need a car I can take anywhere, any time, in any weather without thinking twice about it. That would be my Fiat Grande Punto with a set of spare wheels/tires for winter/summer and a set of chains. I don't hesitate to park in any space at the supermarket parking lot except that if at all possible, I avoid parking next to an SUV, a car full of kids, or a car with Swiss license plates. I don't abuse it, but I certainly treat it different than my Ferrari. For example, I keep it pretty clean most of the time, but I don't necessarily wash the Fiat as soon as it gets dirty. At the moment, the carpeting in the Fiat is dirty and there is plenty of dog hair in the back.

But my Ferrari is VERY different for a whole range of reasons. It burns a lot of gas, it's so low that there are many places of business I can't enter, it's too wide for a few roads I normally travel in my Fiat, it's a PITA to get out of my particular garage and down my narrow driveway, it's too low to travel on some roads with a high crown and/or big potholes, I like it clean and it gets dirty when I drive in in bad weather, it's not a good snow car but more importantly I don't want to risk it when other cars are sliding around, it's a manual so it's OK in traffic but it the appeal of a Ferrari is wasted in stop and go traffic unless you're in a parade, it doesn't serve well for hauling fencing material and other DIY materials, it's hard to parallel park because of poor rear viability, etc.

To put it in perspective, I also have a high performance motorcycle and, to me, it's much like the Ferrari. They both are plenty of fun riding/driving in a spirited way during acceptable weather just for fun when you can pick your time and place. Neither is a good utility vehicle, neither is much fun in bad weather, and neither make good haulers.

But, if conditions are good, I look for excuses to use either my Ferrari or Ducati. There is nothing quite like the enjoyment of these two vehicles. The experience is different between the motorcycle and car, but the enjoyment is similar. So, to answer the question of when I use my Ferrari, I would answer by saying if the mission and conditions fit the Ferrari (or Ducati) I will usually take it rather than my DD. But if the situation doesn't match, I don't try to make due with the Ferrari; i.e. I'll haul garbage and dog food in the Ferrari, but not fence posts.

Said another way, using a Ferrari (or a Ducati) frequently is definitely NOT the same as using either of them as a daily driver.

I think I'm like a lot of Ferrari owners in that I have a bit of a protective attitude toward my vehicle. For instance, I would never had purchased a Ferrari or Ducati if I knew I had to keep them parked outside in all weather. I wouldn't own either of them if I had to rely on them as pure transportation. To me, they're special vehicles for special purposes and I think they deserve a different kind of treatment than I give to my DD. But having said that, I get plenty of use out of my Ferrari.

 

Great thread.

I read so many threads here because I want to know too much I should set aside for maintenance costs and upkeep.

I agree with Curt / Vrsurgeon. To make its short - just set aside $10K fund for maintenance and not worry about anything else but just enjoy the car and drive it.

And I also agree that is not a wise idea for a 360 to be a daily driver. Not unless you have an unlimited budget for upkeep as the miles go up and / or you dont mind door dings and scratches from inconsiderate people that likes to park inches away from you.

 

Totally. Having a "Ferrari fund" (10-15k) is a must for owners...unless you are in the top 1% .