360 steering issue | FerrariChat

360 steering issue

Discussion in '360/430' started by bigsquat, May 12, 2014.

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  1. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2013
    479
    Westchester, NY
    Full Name:
    Troy
    I am trying to figure out if I am actually having a problem with the steering on my 2003 360 Modena or if I am just going crazy. I have owned the car since December 2013 and have put about 700 miles on it to date. Car now has 13,900. Car had a ppi done at a Ferrari dealer who found virtually no faults and after my purchase I had it inspected again at a local ferrari dealer with the same result.

    I felt that when driving at faster speeds the steering was sort of slow to respond or pulling in different directions and the faster I went the worse it became so I had a 4 wheel alignment done about 2 weeks ago. The shop that did it has significant experience in setting up Ferraris and told me the alignment was not that far off when they started and they set it up for street driving, meaning fairly neutral. Tires are new and well balanced.

    However the car still has the same feeling, sort of like bad tramlining, which may be part of it at times, but also slow to respond or needing a lot of input to make the car do what I want. Yesterday at slow speeds I would turn the wheel and let go and it was very slow to snap back to neutral, almost like it was stuck for a second. This happens in both directions. Maybe due to the 20mph speed? Any ideas? I am thinking about asking one of you locals with a 360 to drive and see what you think and make sure I am not just making this up in my head. Thanks.
     
  2. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
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    Alan
    That is not normal. There is an issue with the connection of the steering linkage at the dashboard end. Apparently if there is play in that linkage it will cause the things that you are experiencing. If the steering column is pulled all the way out it apparently makes the situation worse. It just needs tightening. BTW I assume that your tire pressures are correct.
    Alan

    Check this post.
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/327439-loose-steering-column-scuderias.html
     
  3. futureferraribuyer

    futureferraribuyer Formula Junior

    Jun 23, 2010
    296
    Definitely not normal. The car should track straight if you let you hand off the steering wheel. The steering is otherwise pretty light I think.
     
  4. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2013
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    Westchester, NY
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    Troy
    Thanks for the responses. I hope it something as simple as tightening a nut and not replacing the steering rack. That would suck. I'll let you know how it turns out.
     
  5. jpk

    jpk Formula Junior

    Steering and road manners of the 360 should be highly refined, it's what you are paying for. Definitely get that checked out.
     
  6. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2013
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    Westchester, NY
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    Troy
    Dealer is picking it up on Thursday so will hopefully know by the weekend. Thanks.
     
  7. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2013
    479
    Westchester, NY
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    Troy
    The update is that Ferrari of LI picked the car up at my house in Westchester, inspected the steering rack, front end and everything else and found absolutely nothing wrong. I was told that several people drove the car and everyone felt that the car was normal. They then delivered the car back to my house at absolutely no cost to me. Great service but I just can't imagine that the car is normal.

    I drove it about 70 miles today and to me there is a dead spot from neutral to at least 5 degrees in both directions where I can move the wheel back and forth with no input to the front wheels, just as described in the thread linked to by Alan above. The car feels unresponsive when turning and at speeds around 70 mph and above it really begins to feel unstable in that every little normal correction begins to feel like an overcorrection is necessary, if that makes sense. Right now even my 2004 jeep wrangler feels more stable to me at speed. I just drove my wife's C300 and every little turn of the wheel elicits a response. Is a Ferrari not supposed to be that way?

    I am going to try and bring it to another dealer next week but if there is someone local to me that has significant experience in a 360 that is willing to test drive the car I would be extremely appreciative. Any volunteers? I really need another opinion and I am starting to lose my mind over this. Thanks.
     
  8. Dano360NC

    Dano360NC Karting

    Aug 11, 2012
    167
    Southeastern PA
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    Dan
    Have you checked out the power steering fluid quality/level? Maybe the pump or the lines delivering fluid are the issue?
     
  9. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2013
    479
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    Troy
    The power steering fluid was changed just a few months ago but I will check the level just in case the techs did not look at it when they had the car a few weeks ago. Thanks.
     
  10. Chiaroman

    Chiaroman Formula 3
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    Apr 21, 2004
    1,687
    New Jersey
    #10 Chiaroman, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
    Please keep us posted.

    Very interesting.

    Next time out will check for that amount of play in the steering wheel.

    The 360 does have variable ratio steering...Could that become an issue???

    Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the situation will chime in.
     
  11. smoltz

    smoltz Karting

    Mar 10, 2012
    84
    What make and model are the tires and when were they last replaced?
     
  12. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
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    Piedmont Area of NC
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    Alan
  13. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Nov 4, 2013
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    Troy
    The tires are brand new Conti DWS.

    I am not tall and drive with the wheel pulled out but I did push it all the way in and moved the seat up but there was no difference. I am going to take a look at the column the way it was addressed in that link but I want someone to confirm my feeling before I do it. I should be able to have someone else drive it this weekend and we will see what they think. I posted in the regional forum and have some offers that I should be able to take advantage of. Thanks.
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
    39,169
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    Terry H Phillips
    Troy- Conti DWS tires are all weather tires (dry, wet, snow) not really suited for a Ferrari, especially a mid-engine one. What you needed were Conti DWs, not DWSs. The tread pattern on the DWS tires could indeed give the squirrelly feeling you are getting, much like M&S tires would. Who picked out those tires for you?

    The other thing I would have said was suspect was your tie rod ends, but you said those were checked by the dealer. Too little toe-in can also cause stability problems at speed, but you said that was checked, too.
     
  15. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
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    Feb 16, 2012
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    Chris
    I wonder if it's the tires?
    When I had the original Pirellis on the car, the steering was very sharp feeling and had a precise on center feel. If I made a turn, it would spring back to center.
    As soon as I put the new tires on (RE-11's), the steering didn't have that sharp on center feel, and after making a turn the steering stayed turned for a good amount of time. It almost feels like it's stuck in the turned position unless I physically bring it back. As far as tramlining goes, this car doesn't feel like it has an issue with that. The worst car I ever drove with regards to tramlining was a Dodge Viper. It felt horrible and it was a constant fight to keep it in the lane tracking straight.
    These cars definitely feel "darty", but in a good way. The steering should feel tight and responsive to every input. Even though the feel changed with my new tires, the way the car actually tracks when driving it didn't really change. As the tires broke in a little more, the feel got a little better, plus I think I got used to it. It definitely has way more grip now, but I do miss the steering feel with the Pirellis.
    Is it possible that is what you are also feeling? Or did I misinterpret what you described?
     
  16. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    Terry-I have challenge wheels on the way and will have Michelins on them. I actually chose and put the contis on so I would have a set of all seasons for driving in the mountains during the fall and winter. Maybe they were a mistake and I hope you are right. Thanks.

    Chris-What you describe is a pretty good interpretation of what I am feeling.
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Troy- As soon as you fit the Michelins, you will have the answer. Especially if they are Pilot Super Sports.
     
  18. smin9870

    smin9870 Karting

    Mar 6, 2011
    78
    CT
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    Steve
    Bigsquat, i'm pretty close to you in CT. If you drive up, i'd be happy to take a spin and then you can try my 360 and we can compare/contrast. PM me if you want.

    BTW, the guys at Bradan are fantastic and have generally had good experience at Miller in Greenwich with both Maserati and Ferrari service.
     
  19. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
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    One only has to look at the tread pattern on these tyres to know that 95%+ of any steering vagueness has to be down to the tyres …. Continental ExtremeContact DWS
     
  20. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 Kevin Rev'n, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I vote tires too. Note the tire pressures for the tires Ferrari Tested for your car. They are all different. How are you to know what pressure to run your tires at? Most interesting is the P Zeros that require less pressure in the rear. You cold try each of these pressure combinations and see what feels best.
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  21. bigsquat

    bigsquat Formula Junior
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    #21 bigsquat, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Over the last few weeks I continued to drive the car and more and more I believed it to be the tires as the symptoms appeared to worsen as the tires warmed. I finally got my 19" challenge wheels back from the powdercoater with new MPSS fitted and was able to put them on last night. Today I drove 100 miles to my home in upstate NY and I cannot believe the difference the tires make. The car is now what it should have been all along and I cannot express how incredible it is to drive, though most of you know that already.

    This is definitely a lesson learned, though I can't imagine another car being this sensitive to tires. I've run straight up snow tires on performance cars in the past and they never did to the car what the Conti DWS did to the 360. My plan was to keep the 18's with Conti's for cold weather but they will never, ever go back on this car. I love Continentals and have them on all my other cars but the DWS is incredibly inappropriate for this car. Thanks to all who chimed in to try and help. I'll post some pics of the car later. Now back to tearing up the back roads of Sullivan county.
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  22. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Great to hear that you figured it out! Car looks sharp!
     
  23. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
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    We all love a happy ending! :p
     
  24. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Glad to hear it was *only* the tires. Noted on Conti's.
     
  25. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Troy- She looks good and at least the solution did not cost you anything. Happy ending indeed. Just ordered MPSS tires for my 575M.
     

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