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360 successor

Discussion in '360/430' started by orthopod, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. orthopod

    orthopod Rookie

    Jan 13, 2004
    2
    Does anybody have any info regarding the 360 successor? when is it due? and what general specs?
    Thanks
     
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  3. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Orthopod...this issue has been discussed over the last two weeks at lenght. Check under "search" section and you can get up to speed on this issue :)
     
  4. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    it should have the 4.2 V8 that currently resides in the Maserati coupes
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    William,
    I was told last week by my dealer that while it would have a bigger v-8, it definitely would not be the engine from the Maserati, at least in recognizable form. Ferrari acknowledged to my dealer last week that it would be a marketing nightmare to have the same engine as what was in the Maserati, regardless of how good the engine is. They will change it somehow. My guess is tha the displacement will be changed somehow, too.
     
  6. ronsupercar

    ronsupercar Formula 3

    May 2, 2002
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    I was under the impression that Ferrari built that engine and used it on the Maser.. I know that it is a chain driven engine and Ferraris always use belts.

    I assume they would use it, convert it to a belt driven engine and crank a few more HP's into it....
     
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  8. redferrari

    redferrari Rookie

    Jan 19, 2004
    1
    I think the 360 successor will be a 37x like a 370, a 375 or a 378. Like there was the 348, the 355 and then the 360. And, I think it will be on sale in 2006 at the latest.
     
  9. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    The 360 successor has too much competition to stay that small engine wise. also, they are abandoning the current tiny block, which they probably would have liked to enlarge after the 355, but didnt because of Maser development, and the knowledge that the 360 platform could grow into a bigger engine vehicle. I still believe a 4.2 or 4.3 litre is next. with 5 valve heads, etc.
     
  10. loungedog

    loungedog Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    286
    New Market, Ontario
    I agree... the big question is when ;)
     
  11. ChuckEBaby

    ChuckEBaby Formula Junior
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    Nov 7, 2003
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    No Belts in the new V8's… All chain driven! according to one
    of principals at Ferrari/Maser-Seattle who'd attended a dealers
    meeting in May of 03.
     
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  13. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    Before the 420 arrives, there will be another 360 variant, the 360 Evo.

    The likely changes to the Evo will be adding the Stradale's aero and revised F1 system to the base 360. Possibly its 425HP engine enhancements as well. We'll know more soon.
     
  14. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,054
    4.2 litres yes

    5 valves maybe not! The F1 cars have dropped back from 5 valve heads to 4 valve heads because the 5 valvers did not have enough extra breathing capabilities to outweigh the added weight of the heads. 4 valve heads are a lot easier to package and have a nicely arranged combustion chamber profile.
     
  15. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
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    Do you think the 360 Evo will be available in a manual gearbox? And I hope that the new 360 will have the same exhaust that in the 360 CS.
     
  16. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    The "all new" 360 replacement (not the evo/400/whatever) will be a 2006 model. I was told this a few weeks ago when I put my deposit in.
     
  17. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
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    Dec 29, 2003
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    It's hard to say on the exhaust, I'd hope so. As far as the manual option the answer would of course be "yes". Ferrari may gradually be softening the manual production numbers on all of the F1-option cars as the years go by, but they'll always ship some manuals unless it's a limited run (360 CS, Enzo, etc.)

    The rumors of the 360 Evo being re-badged to a "400 Modena" are possible as well, hopefully it'll get the CS's exhaust, revised F1-box, a 4.0L 425+HP engine (how about actually delivering on 425 this time Ferrari, not like the nonsense going on with the CS right now) and the wheels.

    Right now everyone's talking HP gains out of the 4.0 engine, but no one has suggested what the tasty torque improvement would be if the redline stays identical to the current car. Would be nice to see an even 300ft/lbs, peaking at a lower rpm. Drive a F355 and then a 360 back to back and you notice the torque improvement down low of the 360 right away. It would be great if this same step up occurs again with the "400 Modena" or "360 Modena Evoluzione" or whatever it ends up being called.
     
  18. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    mako99 is right, and in fact, somewhere I heard that due to the great tractability of some of the competitor's models, ferrari is making the replacement a torque-laden engine to make better useability. Good move, On the replacement, Id like a nice 350 lbs-ft. with 480 HP. Perfect.
     
  19. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    I'[m told that on my 360 order (6 speed) I can expect delivery in September of this year. That would make the car an 05 model. Ferrari isn't anxious to build 6 speeds, and only 1 of 6 new cars has one. I'm told the new car is an 06, maybe and 05 1/2. Remember they built 99 355s and 99 360s. I'm debating waiting for a 360 replacement and buying a used 360 soon.

    Art
     
  20. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 8, 2003
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    Get one soon...when the new one comes out i bet you can find a home for the 360.

    Vincent.
     
  21. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    Art,
    I just weighed the same decision but instead of getting a used 360, I went with a 355 (which you already have) and placed the order on the 360 replacement which will be an 05.5 (but that's in Europe so probably 06 here). I don't want to pay sticker for a new 360 right now. There are an abundance of well kept used 360 around right now that can be bought for great prices.

    I could easily have substituted a 360 for the 355 but I went with the 355 because it's a car that I've always loved and I didn't want to miss a chance to own a good one. Besides, I have driven several 360's and for some reason I am more attached to the 355 - which leads me to believe that one might have to own a 355 to appreciate a 360. I might upgrade to a 360 later but, to be honest, I am very happy with the 355 and could easily keep it until my 360 replacement comes.

    The bottom line is that I am not sure getting a new 360 right now is such a great thing. There are tons of slightly used ones on the market for reasonable prices and they are only getting more reasonable by the day. By summer time, used 360's will be decent buys as the premiums for them are fading.
     
  22. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Mitch, I did not think that the F1 Ferrari engines ever went to 5 valves (?).

    Personally I think the 5 valve concept is a bit of a gimic, as like you say the combustion chamber shape is better with a 4 valve head.

    Pete

    EDIT: Just checked with www.ferrari.com and the F2003, F2002 and F2001 were all 40 valves (ie. 4 valves per cylinder). I could not see what the F399 was ... will try again later.

    2nd EDIT: F399, F300, 412T2 and 412T1 were all 4 valves ... could not find any earlier specs, and I am supposed to be working :)

    Thus as far as I am concerned Ferrari NEVER used 5 valves per cylinder in a F1 engine ...
     
  23. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    I need to amend this slightly. I do not mean to say that it is a bad idea to buy a new 360 but rather it is not the great solution that it was from 1999 to summer 2003. Then, the only way to get a 360 for a decent price relative to the mileage was to get one from the waiting list. Now, taking delivery of a new one isn't the simple solution that it was before when you couldn't go wrong with a new car at or close to MSRP because there are so many great slightly used ones around.
     
  24. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3
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    Nov 2, 2003
    1,393
    Watch out for the new MSRP, the euro has gone from $0.80 to $1.30 USD for one euro. The 360 successor, optioned out, is in all likelyhood a quarter million dollar car if the euro holds at current levels.

    Unfortunately, this will make the car out of my reach, I hope not, but the euro really does matter and even an intelligent company, like Ferrari, that hedges currency, can only stay hedged about a year out. After that, the market will move to equilibrium. I am unhappy to predict the "new 360" will sticker north of $200k or more.

    The bright spot of all this is, if the euro holds, is that used US cars will be lifted by the value of the euro, we may even have some chances at reverse importation of USA F-cars back to europe and play the exchange angle. The sword cuts both ways. I predict used Ferrari values will rise as we go forward.
     
  25. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    A very interesting prediction!!
     
  26. bumboola

    bumboola Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2003
    625

    They did indeed use 5-valve cylinder heads on the 89 through mid-93 12-cylinder motors. I was surprised that they used them on the 355 after dropping them on the F1 motors, but the 3.5 liter V8 had larger combustion chambers and could probably use them to greater effect than the F1 motors.
     
  27. bumboola

    bumboola Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2003
    625

    You are very correct on all points!
     
  28. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Yes you could be right the designation of the 1989 engine is the type 035/5, thus one could assume this is for 3.5 litres and 5 valves/cylinder, and it was a 5 valver (confirmed via http://www2.arnes.si/~pflorj2/ferrari.index.htm). Their first 5 valver, er, I only researched back until 1980 ...

    Interestingly the 1990 engine was called the type 036 ... with no '/5', but it had 5 valves.
    The 1991 engine had 5 valves.
    The 1992 engine the type E1 A-92 (5 valves).
    The 1993 used the type E2 A-93 (5 valves until the German or Italian GP, then 4).
    1994 the F4 A-94, 1995 the 044/1 ... 4 valves, and 4 valves from then on ...

    So yes you are right and so was Jon. I did not go back far enough with my original flawed research.

    I do know that the flawed Yamaha F1 engine was for some time of its hopeless life a 5 valver too ... but that was a boat anchor :)

    Pete
     

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