Hi Guys, I've been doing a bunch of research on here and other place about an issue im experiencing with my 2003 360 factory gated manual spider. This is a very annoying issue, i hope this may be something some of you have seen before and successfully sorted. When you shift from 1st to 2nd, when you are letting the clutch out and getting back on the gas there is this flat spot or lag for half a second or so where the car doesn't quite rev back up like you'd think it should. If you just accelerate like you think you should and hold the gas pedal in that spot, the engine will pick up and go just fine after the initial lag. I actively have to "drive" around this annoying trait by blipping the throttle between shifts so i can kinda catch 2nd gear with the revs a bit higher. This gets less noticeable as you go through the higher gears. I do notice the car seems to idle a bit uneven at times, not sure if that a 360 thing or its just my car, this is the only 360 i've ever had. The car has fabspeed headers, cat delete, Novitec(capristo) muffler, K&N filters, Carbon airboxes, Challenge race car intake air ducting and a Mase tune. Car runs very strong, I raced a buddy of mine in his 360CS and i walked away from him just last weekend, so leads me to believe this isn't a catastrophic issue. Also has all new plugs and real bosch coil packs. I was thinking it may be a vacuum leak after the MAF's so i did a smoke test on the intake system today and seems to be a leak on the throttle body on the intake plenum side. See the picture( not my car, just an online pic i had), leak is at the blue arrow, its the seam between the rubber and metal. I dont think this is fixable and a new throttle body may be in order. I am going to order 2 new 430 MAF's but am wondering about 430 Throttle bodies and if it makes any difference as the red intake plenum inlet seems to be about the same size as the 360s throttle bodies .I do know i'll need to have the tune redone for the new MAF's. Also do you think this vacuum leak may cause my issue? I know some people have posted about a Porsche Thottle body, i believe its the 997 GT3 part # 0280750473. I've also seen the bellows from the 430 are used to route the vapour lines. Problem is, most of the threads end with no feedback or a final conclusion. I would be happy to document this process start to finish with part numbers, dyno numbers, and progress pics to help others going forward. As these cars age i think this will be an ongoing issue as nothing lasts forever. I just want my car to be as good as it possibly can and work as Ferrari intended it to, better wherever possible!! Cheers, Mike. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That picture appears to be my engine with the vents in the rubber sleeves and the 474 TB's. The throttle body wouldn't be the source of the leak because it mounts to an aluminum part that holds the rubber connection to the intake manifold. That part would be separate and probably a LOT less expensive than a new throttle body. I had a good lag with my gated 360 before I replaced the 038 OEM TBs with the Bosch 0 280 750 474 Porsche version. The lag seems to be gone. I suspect the lag is due to a mismatch between the two TB's in their response. It could be that the ECU holds the acceleration of the butterfly valve back so they both open at the same rate. It's likely one or both of your TB is near to that death point where you start getting CEL's or go into the dreaded "limp mode" where you only have about 20% of throttle response. A note of caution: If your TBs are sucking more juice than they're supposed to, you won't get a CEL. Instead, you'll get a ticking TB which means you've melted the solder for the H-Bridge in your ECU. That could be really bad news. I suggest not ignoring this issue. I spent a lot of time and effort figuring out these little marvels of engineering. If you want to know more, read this: https://www.ferrari360.org/2020/07/bosch-throttle-body-replacement.html
Thanks for the response. I did see the potential for catastrophic ECU failure, I definitely don't need that issue!! You are correct about the leak, it isn't the TB itself but the part bolted to it. Its not at the mating surface that is serviceable with a new o ring. Regardless i do want to go with 430 MAF and new TB's. Looking into the TB's available im wondering if the GT3 TB ( part # 0 280 750 473 ) I believe this is a 82MM TB. I see that a smaller TB ( part # 0280 750 474) is what you went with. I'm unsure of the parameters these TB work by and if this other Porsche part will work, 473 vs 474. I have taken these measurements from my car, 280 218 012 (360 MAF) 70MM novitec carbon air box opening, 80MM 280 750 038 (360 TB) 75MM Red intake plenum 76 MM Rubber bellow, 80MM With these measurements in mind, especially the plenum, Will we even see much of an air flow increase to the engine by going with a larger TB? The restriction from the butterfly inside the TB is obviously not there in the plenum. I wondering if a larger 82MM TB will make up a difference in overall flow. Thoughts? Im thinking if there is a performance gain to be had here, might as well do it now.
The 474 TB has the exact same parts including the butterfly valve as the OEM 038. I don't know about the 473 model. Will increasing the diameter of the pipe leading to the intake make any difference? You'd have to do a fluid dynamics analysis to know for sure, but you can't put six gallons into a five gallon hat. If it does improve performance, it would likely be that swapping your lead acid battery for a lithium one would actually boost your performance more. Only a dyno before and after would prove it. And of course, how much gain would come from the tune? Then there's the non-stock thing. When you go to sell it, is your mod considered an improvement to the prospective buyer, or something that has to be "fixed"?
Your question about the flow is same as mine, same thought process. My idea was that if I use an 82 MM TB, the actual flow may be the same as the smaller intake openings because of the restriction of the butterfly. But yes, I get it, who knows... I'm hoping Trev360 chimes in, I did PM him on this too. For what it's worth I do go anti gravity on all my batteries,LOL!!! Im thinking since I do have to retune the car anyways I might as well make it as good as possible. For the resale, I get it but my car is far from stock and with the amount of time and money I have into it makes no sense to sell.
I don’t think this will fix your specific issue but if you’re open to tuning your car, I would have Trevor tune it. I have a gated car and I would have described it as very hard to drive before the tune and after it’s way better and much more enjoyable to drive. Primarily the changes to the throttle inputs. I found the oem software not sensitive enough in that I’d have to mash the accelerator to get the car to do anything.
I think these older fly by wire throttles do have a lag. My old 2003 manual BMW was terrible, making it almost impossible to blip the throttle on down shifts. My old 2011 manual BMW was razor sharp on the throttle. My manual 430 is somewhere in between but I still have to be aggressive on the blip or it doesn't happen.
Update, Thanks for all your input. Im going to be ordering 430 MAF's and connector pipe. TB will be a Porsche unit, exact one TBD. Tune will be done by 360Trev, and hopefully some new tasty bits that are in the works. I'll update as we go along in case this helps anyone else. RedTaxi, I still have a couple superchargedz E93 M3's, i love those cars. A sprint booster really wakes up the response time on those.
