360 top won't open all the way

Probably the more than a dozen elastic straps in the top. They're made from rubber and just like tires, give it up after about five to seven years.

I wrote this article on the topic: https://www.ferrari360.org/2020/09/capote-elastic-bands-and-more.html

To get the top to close, you'll likely have to "move the headliner bar" manually into position as the top closes. I've seen a number of threads on the topic here so just search for them to read more on the issue.

 

You can probably confirm that the tensioner bands aren't doing their jobs by assisting the top as it closes; gently push on those places that usually articulate.

On the other hand, it could also be a problem with a sensor or sensor connection. There are at least 10 different sensors within a Spider soft top. The Flaps Closed micro-switch (EFZ) located by the left flap and the Front Soft Top Folded Back micro-switch (ESDA) located near the main mount articulated arm may prevent the top from going into storage if they aren't tripped. But, I have zero experience with this, so take my comments for what they're worth. I suspect a technician would test these switches, though.

 

Where did you get these abbreviations from, Lars (i.e. EFZ and ESDA). I'm trying to relate them to the wiring hookup diagrams in the WSM. I started putting together a diagram for the roof (see link below)

https://www.dropbox.com/t/BYFDq2Dfj1vr9E0k

I guess the EFZ is 6Q, but I'm not sure about the ESDA.

Thanks

 

I have an extract from a service manual that covers soft tops. I don't know what service manual it's from, but it's not the factory WSM that's floating around. I'll try to align the microswitch designations from this manual to the diagram you provided:

1. EFA Flap Open:: 5Q
2. EFZ Flap Closed: 6Q
3. EVA Inside Bay 7Q
4. EVZ Outside Bay 8Q
5. ESDA Top Folded Back 9Q
6. EVVA-L LH Hook Open 10Q
7. EVVD-L LH Striker Plate 11Q
8. EVVZ Cross-member 12Q
9. EVVA-R RH Hook Open 13Q
10. EVVD-R RH Striker Plate 14Q
11. EDZ Cover Closed 15Q
12. EDA Cover Open 16Q

 

Thanks, Lars! Much appreciated. I'll provide an updated diagram shortly.

 

Updated diagram here:

https://www.dropbox.com/t/WAB5LSuHHdsmK2sh

Although I'm still not sure what all the wires are for. There are two going to the instrument panel from the roof ECU. Perhaps one is for the roof buzzer, but I'm not sure what the other wire does.

 

Ian, is refining and detailing Ferrari wiring diagrams your life's work? It's much appreciated!

 

It's something to keep me busy in my retirement, Lars

For those interested in the rest of the roof system wiring, here's the interface between the car and the roof system:

https://www.dropbox.com/t/kJd3hIWCOgLJTLmR

Start in the bottom left hand corner at plug 1Q/31H. This takes you to the fuses, instrument panel and roof switch.

Some Window Control Unit and Doorlock wiring thrown in for free

 

Any updated link to this diagram? Seems it's been removed.

 

My links only last 6~7 days.

Spider roof diagram (roof side)

https://www.dropbox.com/t/WBtcmhrjRM4jVpFp

 

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm chasing a top open dash message...

 

And we appreciate your retirement ...

 

I’d better let the experts handle this one. I don’t know if the message is triggered by, say, a single microswitch (e.g. "crossmember switch EVVZ") or a combination of switches.

There are two wires going from the roof system to the instrument cluster, but neither of these wires are directly attached to roof microswitches. The Roof ECU must send the roof open information. It's not clear if this is discrete data or if the data is sent on some kind of databus.

 

A shop with proper software can look at errors and parameters and find the issue pretty quickly. I see this from time to time. Not terribly difficult with the right tools.

 

The roof is on the CAN bus that is shared with the instrument panel.

 

Just wondering why it needs a full CAN Bus between the instrument panel and the Roof ECU. There are already separate wires for:

OBD2 port
Vehicle speed (from instrument panel)
Window ECU data (2 wire dataline)

The Roof ECU does trigger the warning light and the buzzer, but that could be covered by two discrete wires.

Just realised I missed a few parts of the roof wiring diagram (pump motor and hydraulic fluid temperature sensor)

https://www.dropbox.com/t/XlQ7WR7VH3VZsnmh

Now version 5.

 

Sorry, some more minor tweaks:

Version 6

https://www.dropbox.com/t/rXJ2lDskLC1FLmFU

I would have to completely redraw the diagram to move the male and female connectors closer to each other. In the meantime, I've drawn grey lines showing the links between them.

To be used in conjunction with the diagram which shows the console roof switch diagram and the "car" side of plug 31H/1Q:

https://www.dropbox.com/t/EhSToq4ZxvRK5Ktp

 

Little update for anyone. I scanned my top today and got these results. This is with the top closed. I had 2 switches that's were open, EVvA Right hook and EVv/z cross member, ,after some testing and cleaning it appears they are functioning correctly, but my dash warming is still on...

 

Sorry, that terminology is all Greek to me False? True? Security?

Lower Window Request = Activated:

This seems odd. It's like some part of the system is thinking you are commanding the roof to go down. On the F355, the windows drop when the roof moves away from the top of the windshield (something like the EVv/z signal). However, according to the 360/430 Functional Description pdf, the window drop is controlled by the roof operating switch on the centre console. Your roof operating switch (B.V/A) shows Not Activated.

There seems to be a couple of window-related signals/switches mentioned. The pdf says S/WGD (Windows Go Down) is the signal from the ECU to the Window ECU to drop the windows. This is not shown on your Launch readout. S/WID is the "window is now down" signal according to the pdf file. This is feedback from the Window ECU, I suppose. However, your readout shows E/Wid, not S/Wid. I don't know if this is the same. According to your Launch page, E/Wid is for "power window enabling" which is quite different (descriptively)

Armed with this jumble of information, it seems like some of the internals of the Roof ECU think that the windows are being commanded down. ECU internal error? Are your windows already down from manual input? There was a gentleman on the forum with a problem with this window position switches. I'm wondering if one of your window switches is faulty causing a logic conflict (and generating a roof warning?)

How did you test them? Did you check the respective pins at the ECU to see if they changed state?

I may have missed a wire in the wiring diagram. I can't see where splice SQ3 gets an earth. I think the wiring hookup diagrams I have are missing a few pages.

 

Yes, the windows were down when I took that scan. Come to think of it, I may have had the drivers door open.

I tested the right hook and cross member micro switches for open and closed continuity. I also confirmed their "ground" wires for continuity to ground. Finally I confirmed the switch applying ground to the pins on the 2q connector.

I don't have a scan report from before I started, but the right hook and cross member status were reading "true" and "open" before...

 

Thanks, that may explain the some of the parameter values. I'm not so much worried about the windows now.

So it looks like I am missing a ground somewhere in my diagram. Also, I don't understand why there is a loop between 13Q and 11Q.

Unfortunately, this leaves us no closer to a solution. The switches are ok.

Is the warning light intermittent when you drive around or permanent? There are two wires running from the Roof ECU to the Instrument Cluster. I assume one of these is responsible for the warning light (or both). Can you let me know if the light comes on the dash with the Roof ECU plug 3Q disconnected? That's the small 5 pin plug. Ignition on, of course. If the warning light doesn't come on, then we have to somehow figure if the Roof ECU is sending power or an earth to the Instrument Cluster to generate the light... or a complex data stream.

The yellow wire and the white wire on 3Q go the Instruments

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For reference. On plug 3G:

Pin 1 = power in
Pin 2 = signal to/from? Window ECU
Pin 3 = earth
Pin 4 & 5 are hooked up to the Instrument panel (plug 8E). Plug 8E is a 20 pin plug. Pins 15 & 18 on 8E are hooked up to 3G.