360cs vs 360 spyder

I have to say that I am with the spirit of what Tim is saying – a Ferrari 360 is a pleasure car and not an investment - I buy paintings to look at (invest) and cars to drive them and if you drive a car it depreciates – if you don’t drive them well a discussion of which depreciates faster is valid but than what is the point

The 360 CS much more drivable than the Modena or Spider. The F1 transmission has improved to a point that you can completely forget it – no more jerkiness and shifts are instantaneous – thump, thump, thump – the car has also much more torque in the 2.5K rpm range – so no more worry about the selected gear. Tires and the front / rear height adjustment have made the car well behaved to a level that I wonder when it will get me.

However there is a catch – no damping – the car runs at 92db sound-pressure level at 80mph on the highway - (measured with a Sound Level Meter A rating, Slow for those in the know). 85 db over a lengthy period damages your hearing! So you better think about ear plugs.

You also hear every pavement change or gravel that hits the aluminum body as well as the brake noise and the engine behind you.

I love the CS – it is a “real” car – its fun - but the CS and the Spider/Modena are different animals and it makes me wonder if a decision between CS/Spider can be well thought through

 

Gordy,

I knew you would make the right choice!

What color combo did you end up ordering?

Paul

 

Had the poster asked, "which car will make me the most money after 3 years?" then I'd be with you and Tim in setting the guy straight. But that wasn't the question. The question is which costs more to own? And, as you yourself say, they depreciate a lot if you drive them. What if one depreciates $1/mile you drive it while the other depreciates $10/mile you drive it?? Tim's position is, if you can afford a 360 then you shouldn't care. Your position is that its a pointless question... just know its going to depreciate.

Well, I am willing to pay $1/mile for the awesome car that a 360 is. I would NOT be willing to pay $10/mile... its not that much coooler than other MUCH cheaper cars. Where does it really land on that scale? And where does each person's tolerance for $$/mile land? Each person will be different, spread across a broad spectrum, independent of what they can "afford" to spend. You and Tim's contention is simply wrong.

I have no jerkiness from my 360 F1... and shifts are lightning quick... I doubt any new Spider is any different, unless driven badly or broken. And a 360 CS is not going to be "more drivable" to most of the population... it will be too harsh, too loud, and too missing of creature comforts for the majority of people who can afford one.

I assume this is based upon your butt-dyno? AFAIK, the 360CS is identical in torque to the 360 Spider until you get to the top end of the RPMs. Zero difference at 2500rpm.

This is a reasonable comment (unlike the above)... I agree that for most people, the choice between these two very different cars would seem to be based on their very big differences... however, I give the poster the benefit of the doubt and assume he's weighed these things, and the pros/cons come out reasonably close in his evaluation... that's certainly possible... such that cost of ownership between the two may sway his decision.

I still contend that titanium360's original question is perfectly reasonable... and that your and Tim's responses to it are unreasonable and unintelligent. Level of depreciation and overall cost of ownership are perfectly reasonable concerns in the purchase of a Ferrari! Period.

 

Thomas,

Did you actually measure this? How did you measure it?

C&D measured it at 70mph and got a mere 79dB, which was less than the GT3 at 80dB, and much less than the Ford GT at 84dB.

It does not seem reasonable that the car gets more than twice as loud going from 70mph to 80mph... but I suppose its possible if the exhaust opens up somewhere in there... however, I thought it opened up above 5000rpm, which would be above 110mph... I'm okay with that... I want the car screaming when I floor it... but not just cruising along at constant highway speeds.

Comments?

Brian

 

Rossa Scuderia/tan leather, no stripe, blk calipers, fire ext., battery chgr, Stereo (I know, I know, but my wife wouldn't hear of spending $200k w/o a stereo).

With input from Thomas I think I need the medium seats. If there is any other input on seat sizing out there, feel free to inform me.

 

> You and Tim's contention is simply wrong
These are opinions and view points – and titanium360 asked what everybody thinks about resale – one opinion is don’t worry drive – sounds reasonable to me

>have no jerkiness from my 360 F1 … more drivable" to most of the population … Zero difference at 2500rpm

The prove can only be to take a ride together in a CS and Modena after each other (any time in Sattle?) – however here are my observations:

- the CS starts smoothly from standstill like an automatic
- average shift is 150ms vs. 190ms per marketing blablabla
- CS normal mode = Modena sport mode ; CS race mode is new (my experience)
- CS accelerates from 2.5K rpm easily while the Modena would do this unwillingly (my but sensor and F did go through a lot of engine changes; I would question if this has been only done for top-end hp)

F claims more hp, better balance, brakes, and better F1 for the CS – so you are saying that is all BS?

>..he's weighed these things, and the pros/cons come out reasonably close in his evaluation...

No doubt – and my feedback was based on >800miles of driving the CS and 5K miles the Modena – reconsider because the CS/Spider are different types of cars (besides expected depreciation)

 

did not know about teh measurements in teh magazines - I have to dig them out

I used a Radio Shake Sound Level Meter (analog) and a Gold Line DSP-30 Real Time Analyzer (don’t laugh I am an audio nut).

I did several SPL (sound pressure level) measurements at different speeds and rpm ranges and I did measure the SPL 2 foot behind the car for different rpm’s. The DSP-30 microphone was suspended between the seats (tape) or on a microphone stand two foot behind the car. A friend did hold the Radio Shack SLM at ear height directed towards the ceiling.

The 92db was at constant speed on the highway with windows closed and 80mph on a slight downhill stretch of I90. I was astonished about the level myself since I did not expect it, i.e. experienced it – I felt comfortable. This was the reason I did use the frequency analyzer too to determine the spectrum (lower is experienced as louder). Rest assures I drove the car for over four hours on Saturday and my ears did not ring but it is noisy.

Note aside: the exhaust gets an unbelievable sound (frequency) at around 4.5K rpm and I assume it is when the second pipe starts to open but this is a guess.

… and no worry the car screams at 8.5k rpm

 

Thomas- cool to hear you're also an audio nut! The Radio Shack meter is actually pretty decent, the calibration tables are available for it, and through most of the frequency range it is accurate to 5db.

The DB figures you post do not greatly surprise me, though 2feet? What about 1meter?

Road noise can vary by as much as +-10db (total RMS of 20db!) in an un-insulated car depending just on the road surface quality itself (eg concreate vs asphalt, etc.)

Any samples at full wail? If it's under 110db at the pipes at 2' I will be severely dissapointed.

Best!
Ben.

 

Wow! Sounds like you did the measurements just right. The ultimate challenge for noise-cancelling headphones, eh? I wonder why the mags were so much quieter. That stereo is even more useless than I thought it was! (I didn't order it.)

How much is tire noise? I put a set of Yoko A032R's on my M3 once... the car was deafening between 70 and 80... had to drive 50 or 95 to keep the volume tolerable. I got rid of those tires quick.


Brian

 

But Tim said much more than that... he rejected the question as unreasonable with logic that was fairly insulting. But no need to repeat that line of argument.

Hell, no... that stuff better not be BS... I'm buying one for that stuff! But the extra HP is up top (better breathing), the better balance and brakes is mostly for track, and the better F1 is mostly about quicker shifts and other track benefits. At least according to Ferrari. None of that would make the car particularly better for normal driving on the street relative to a new Spider. Whereas there's a lot that will make the CS much harsher for everyday driving.

Cheers.