In fairness I've done WAY more than Factory CS spec. A sort of cross between a F430 Challenge car spec and CS road car spec. With more power and significantly less weight. 1. Over 200kg's of weight removed. (standard cars typically save ~70kg's over a Modena with standard glass windows fitted). This is way more difficult than one would 1st expect! 2. I've got over 40ft.pounds more torque than a CS and more hp. Race cars, headers, ti system, etc. Not much less than a Scud actually! 3. I have full FIA spec challenge racing seats, snap of steering wheel & soon to be completed center lock wheel conversion and later in the year plan to fit 430Ch/Scud big brake upgrade. 4. Racing spec geo, spare set of wheels with set of racing slicks fitted. 5. etc. etc... A sort of 2010 GT3 RS spec equivalent of a CS if you like. Faster, lighter and IMHO more fun than simply a 3 peddle converted CS.
Wow! What a thread. Beautiful work, so much details, incredible. Congratulations for not accepting "good enough" and when it does not exist, "design it!" Kevin.
360trev: few questions regarding the Challenge stradale front bumper that you bought from pro sport UK. did u get the front mesh and the frame too?plug and play right? cause i bough the authentic front from germany and it doesnt come with the front mesh and frame please advice
Love the centre bolt wheels, what model of car are they from then? Also were they lighter in weight than the normal/CS wheels? Neil
Just started reading this thread as I would love a Scuderia in manual. But its funny how you predicted this in 2007 and guess what, sadly you were so true.
Trev, I love this thread. I am so excited for my 3 pedal 360Stradale conversion. I bought the Canadian CS and will be swapping it all to my 360 along with a pair of turbos. Thanks for all the motivation!!
Man I wish I owned a engineering shop ... I'd make a de-paddle conversion kit. Ferrari are wrong with not marketing a proper manual anymore. Not everybody wants to pretend to be a teenager getting overly excited about gadgets and gimicks. Pete
I used to feel the same way, rabidly in fact. The first few generations of paddle pop change boxes were terrible. The latest are pretty damn spectacular. Have you driven any F1's, particularly current generation? How do you feel about ABS brakes? I remember a similar debate when they came out. In fact Ferrari had a switch to turn it off in the early days. When was the last time you heard someone complaining about ABS on a road car? Times change.
At first I thought your comparison to ABS was silly but I thought about it and I can see that it is a reasonable comparison. The difference is ABS does not remove the enjoyment from driving. You are still pushing a pedal and can feel the brakes, but yes a computer does the skillful part. With paddle shift you have no connection whatsoever with the gearbox. You say to the computer, change gear please and IT changes the gear for you. There is something wonderful from being able to feel the engineering when you are changing gear and use the clutch. I have not driven any F1 cars (even real F1 cars, not just the gimickly named ones), but for a quick road test I can imagine the paddles would be great fun, as even I like to play with gimicks for a little while. So I'd have to own a car for a few months to be able to accurately make a correct judgement ... I think. Pete
comparing abs/non abs equipped cars to paddle shift/3 pedal cars is apples/oranges. I've driven the newer f1 shifts. They're nice, but feel nothing like a 3 pedal car.
On my turbo project I will connect the PCV system to the exhaust pipe using a check valve and 45 deg connection.
Wow, what a lot of questions and responses! I am sorry about not being able to respond any quicker but other commitments halted proceedings. I will respond to as many as I can including the PCV questions. First, an update on the Center Lock conversion and more pictures and information. ... Firstly 'Tire Choice'... I originally planned on re-using the standard Pirelli Challenge Stradale 'fast road' tires from circa 2003-04 era but after lots of deliberation I decided to go with the very latest tech in the form of the newest Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. There are many reasons for this decision not to mention wanting to go up in sizes to match my new Center Lock Challenge rims. These new fangled Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires have been receiving rave reviews lately and are now in fact standard fitment on the new high performance Ferrari's, the 599GTO and also some 458 Italia's are starting to run on them too. ... However before deciding on the best tire SIZES to use on the Center Lock wheels we first need to study some information across various Ferrari's in terms of tire fitment in relation to the size of their (stock) rim. The size (width across the rim looking from inner foot well to kerbside) determines the maximum size tires that can go on the rim. I always felt the front tires where a little to skinny on the 360's/430's so was keen to get a bit more rubber down. So on front Rim Width's: 7.5" Inch, Minimum sized tire: 205 mm, Ideal: 215 mm or 225 mm, Max: 235 mm 8.0" Inch, Minimum sized tire: 215 mm, Ideal: 225 mm or 235 mm, Max: 245 mm And on the rear Rim Width's: 10.0" Min: 255 mm, Ideal: 265 mm or 275 mm, Max: 285 mm 10.5" Min: 265 mm, Ideal: 275 mm or 285 mm, Max: 295 mm Now lets look at some model's and their RIM sizes and stock tire sizes... --- Ferrari 360 Modena Wheels,f;r 7.5" x 18-in; 10.0" x 18-in, cast aluminum Tires, f;r 215/45ZR18; 275/40ZR18 --- Ferrari Challenge Stradale Wheels,f;r 7.5" x 19-in; 10.0" x 19-in, cast aluminum Tires, f;r 225/35ZR19; 285/35ZR19 --- Ferrari 430 Scuderia Wheels,f;r 8.0" x 19-in; 10.0" x 19-in, cast aluminum Tires, f;r 235/35ZR19; 285/35ZR19 --- Ferrari 430 Challenge Wheels,f;r 8.0" x 19-in; 10.5" x 19-in, cast aluminum Tires, f;r 235/35ZR19; 295/35ZR19 (equivalent width but on racing slicks) --- Ferrari 458 Italia Wheels,f;r 8.5" x 20-in; 10.5" x 20-in, cast aluminum Tires, f;r 235/35ZR20; 295/35ZR20 Its interesting to note that the Road spec Italia runs the same equivalent width tires as the 430 Challenge car did and even 0.5" inch wider front rims too. I've gone with the same size tires as the 430 Challenge and Italia. This gives me the same road footprint with 10mm more rubber than used on the 430 Scuderia. FYI. The car is still on jacks hence the 4x4 style ride height Full geo to be done and full corner weight session. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Will get you exact figures but they are around 2kgs lighter. Wheel weights can be confusing and many people simply assume less 'overall' weight is better. Actually its not as simple as that and the overall weight of the wheel isn't as important as where exactly the weight is in the rim itself. Rotating mass is bad, so the more weight you can remove from the outside of the wheel, the "lighter" the wheel will perform. So depending on how the wheel is made will make a big difference to its performance.
Purely from financial bean counter and marketing dept. perspectives I think they where 100% right to go this way. The majority of customers bought the paddle shifts and from a selling/showroom perspective it was quite cool to be able to milk the f1 connection to the customer base for all its worth. (Even if paddle shift AMT systems where working in the '80's. Shhh on that one.). Whether or not all enthusiasts like it or not financial realities will force sometimes unpopular decisions such as these. Quite the contrary to popular belief I actually don't hate paddles 'per say' as some people think. I think they work really great in GT3 racing and other closed circuit racing and competition situations where every millisecond matters. Automatic gears are a boon on the road for many people too as it makes access to the full performance of the car more accessible not to mention helping the engineers to build more intelligent traction and stability systems that humans cannot 'break' (as well as from a warranty perspective saving on big engine claims too). For example Ferrari can reduce the need to 'over engineer' and fine balance the crankshaft so much and titanium con-rods no longer needed since 'over-revving due to a poorly mis-managed downshift' can be prevented - you therefore don't need to ensure the engine can run at silly rev's or balance each engine to such as degree. On a computer controlled gearbox the inexperienced down shifter commands will be rejected and the over-rev condition prevented. I guess it just comes down to having multiple cars to do different duties. I personally love what I've done to my car and love the fact its a manual box but that's not to say I'm against buying the new 'Scud/CS variant of the 458' when it arrives. For me this project has been all about making something unique, raw and very track focused yet still feeling good on the road.
F430 Challenge Rim pics.. Fronts: 8.5" x 19" Rears: 10.5" x 19" This is 0.5" wider than stock CS wheels all around. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'll make some pictures soon describing the changes. Before I do I'll do some 'before/after' dyno's to show the benefits...
